US Tariffs on Switzerland

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True, but I am still betting on the President, who said "All tariffs are still in effect! Today a Highly Partisan Appeals Court incorrectly said that our tariffs should be removed, but they know the United States of America will win in the end,"
As I said earlier, rights are only good as long as everyone agrees that they are rights. Similarly, laws and courts are only valid if everyone agrees they are valid. The framing narrative has already started that will justify ignoring the courts. It won't be the first time they have been ignored. Contempt doesn't really exist anymore for the administration, so who is going to stop them from just ignoring a decision that doesn't go their way? No one...
 
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My personal view is that these tariffs are becoming a major source of revenue for the U.S. and will prove very difficult to dismantle, even after the current administration leaves office.

gatorcpa
Unfortunately this may be true. The 'Chicken Tax' was done in 1964 when the US put a 25% tariff on small trucks in retaliation for European restrictions on chicken imports from the US. That 25% tariff still exists today and is partly responsible why pickup trucks are so large in the US; no competition from smaller, cheaper imports. Politicians love money coming into the coffers even if it hurts particular groups of people or businesses. It would be next to impossible to do away with the 25% tariff on imported trucks at this point even though it has hurt American consumer's choices and pocketbook for over 60 years.
 
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The main reason that post offices many countries have suspended package services is that they lack internal customs brokerages to assist their customers in filling out the appropriate paperwork so that proper Customs duties are paid. Local post offices are not yet set up to do that, either inside or outside the U.S.

Some countries may eventually train their staff to handle the customs, others with privatized post offices (Germany) might direct customers to their more expensive express services that include customs declarations.

It seems to me that the big winners here are large private companies that have Customs brokers on staff. This would include UPS, FedEx, DHL, Amazon, Walmart, as well as foreign equivalents that I don’t know about.

The losers are small businesses and individuals, who do not have access to these services at reasonable rates.

My personal view is that these tariffs are becoming a major source of revenue for the U.S. and will prove very difficult to dismantle, even after the current administration leaves office.

I don’t know if personal exemptions will be brought back at some point. I hope so, but so long as our government’s official position is that all Americans who receive packages from overseas are drug smugglers, I don’t see that happening in the short term.

gatorcpa
Already some of the big 4 (DHL, FedEx etc…) are saying no to the small stuff saying business parcels 📦 only.

They make no money on small stuff and the fear of non payers clogging their warehouses with stuff not picked up.

(Also the no money made shipping it back……like the other thread with the member not wanting to pay $1800 for duty…..if not payed the goods will be abandoned and the buyer out $2800 with the abandoned goods sold by customs to recoup the unpaid duty)
 
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My personal view is that these tariffs are becoming a major source of revenue for the U.S. and will prove very difficult to dismantle, even after the current administration leaves office.
I've actually been wondering about something. Setting aside the question if the administration will actually follow the courts for a minute...

All these countries that rushed to make a deal for a certain percentage tariff rate - since the other country has signed some agreement with the US, are these liable to be struck down? The initial imposition of tariffs to get that agreement may have been illegal, but if there is a signed agreement with another country, is that binding? Perhaps it requires an act of passing that agreement in congress? That's a side of this I've not heard anything about - if these agreements that were made were actually put into law and passed...
 
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All these countries that rushed to make a deal for a certain percentage tariff rate - since the other country has signed some agreement with the US, are these liable to be struck down?

And what about the guy who owes $1800 in tariff fees, plus all the billions already collected? If these were collected illegally, it seems logical that they should be refunded.

But laws are pretty much thrown out the window now. The administration would need to agree to return the fees, if determined. Congress could rubber stamp previously collected tariffs. Defying the courts and slow walking is de rigueur with this administration. It'd be surprising to see previously collected tariffs returned. However, there might be a case for not paying a tariff fee now, based on it being ruled invalid. (But who thinks the Hindenberg/Roberts Supreme Court will let the appellate court decision stand.)

As for the international agreements, international trade agreements are way out of my league (not that you asked me.) If they are anything like contract law, a contract based on illegal coercion could be voided. But I suspect international treaties are much different and more complicated, as well as difficult to enforce when one side refuses to abide by the terms.

But does the public know what was agreed to in fact? If these agreements are like other agreements announced by Trump, they never amounted to anything. Countries and companies promised billions in investment that never happened. So it's an interesting and thoughtful question, if the agreements were actually more than hot air in the reality.
 
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All these countries that rushed to make a deal for a certain percentage tariff rate - since the other country has signed some agreement with the US, are these liable to be struck down?
I don’t think so. Trump is correct when he says that one of the main powers reserved for the Executive Branch is negotiating agreements with foreign governments. It’s an important function of the Department of State.

Generally treaties with foreign governments require 2/3 Senate ratification to be effective. However, there is something called an “Executive Agreement” that is not considered a treaty.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_agreement

So it is likely that these Executive Agreements on trade would stand even if the Supreme Court reversed the discriminatory tariffs.

gatorcpa
 
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I don’t think so. Trump is correct when he says that one of the main powers reserved for the Executive Branch is negotiating agreements with foreign governments. It’s an important function of the Department of State.

Generally treaties with foreign governments require 2/3 Senate ratification to be effective. However, there is something called an “Executive Agreement” that is not considered a treaty.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_agreement

So it is likely that these Executive Agreements on trade would stand even if the Supreme Court reversed the discriminatory tariffs.

gatorcpa
For those countries that rushed to appease the demand for an agreement, maybe that wasn't the best idea...
 
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For those countries that rushed to appease the demand for an agreement, maybe that wasn't the best idea...
I suppose these Agreements can be renegotiated at any time if both parties agree to it.
gatorcpa
 
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I suppose these Agreements can be renegotiated at any time if both parties agree to it.
gatorcpa
"if" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there...
 
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….and his renegotiation has been shown to be “here is the new one” regardless of ‘agreement’.
 
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"if" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there...
The passage of time has a habit of changing things. Not that I think this will happen anytime soon and certainly not with our current regime.
gatorcpa
 
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You mean the tariffs aren't being paid by the foreign countries? 🤪
 
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Tariffs can be set by a simple majority of Congress, and it is very likely that even members who dont like the idea of the executive using tariffs to reshape the global economy, would not rush to throw the world into even more chaos. If the Supreme Court affirms the ruling, which is unlikely, I think tariffs will remain, just set by Congress, which is clearly what the Constitution intended anyway.
 
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Tariffs can be set by a simple majority of Congress, and it is very likely that even members who dont like the idea of the executive using tariffs to reshape the global economy, would not rush to throw the world into even more chaos. If the Supreme Court affirms the ruling, which is unlikely, I think tariffs will remain, just set by Congress, which is clearly what the Constitution intended anyway.

The idea of doing all this with executive orders is so ridiculous and infuriating.
 
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The idea of doing all this with executive orders is so ridiculous and infuriating.
The executive has been expanding its power for decades now. I agree, very frustrating. Even if the "right guy" is expanding the executive's power, the "wrong guy" abusing it is not something anyone wants.
 
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You mean the tariffs aren't being paid by the foreign countries? 🤪

So ignoring how it's being implemented and constantly changing, as well as being temporary and used as some kind of bargaining chip for who knows what.

It's kindof ironic. Some companies decided to eat the costs by lowering wholesale prices, at least some did previously. This amounted to a kind of corporate tax, which conservatives have been opposed to previously.

And even if there was an across the board 15 to 25% tariff on all goods that was paid by us consumers, it wouldn't be horrible if it went towards health care or infrastructure or any number of ways to improve society. It'd be similar to the European VAT. But the tariffs are supposed to support the reduced taxes.

All very confusing.
 
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It'd be similar to the European VAT.
VAT, GST, sales and use tax operate the same in the eyes of the general public. A regressive tax on consumption.

Please read my post above regarding how VAT affects manufacturing and wholesale businesses. Very different result.

Tariffs are non-recoverable. If tariffs go away tomorrow, there is no way to get a refund. This is why import/export business with the U.S. has slowed to a fraction of what it was a year ago.

gatorcpa
 
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VAT, GST, sales and use tax operate the same in the eyes of the general public. A regressive tax on consumption.

Please read my post above regarding how VAT affects manufacturing and wholesale businesses. Very different result.

Tariffs are non-recoverable. If tariffs go away tomorrow, there is no way to get a refund. This is why import/export business with the U.S. has slowed to a fraction of what it was a year ago.

gatorcpa
Thanks. I absolutely appreciate and learn from your expertise. In this instance, I am not so much confused on how different tax policies as I am on what happened to the conservatives and their principles regarding taxes, (not to mention governmental interference and control over business, which is another conversation, off-topic.)