Discussion on Broad Arrow Polerouters

gop76 · Jul 14, 2018

Mazoue
Thanks. I am interested to know what you meant by "the same reference was released with and without BA".

Are you saying, for example, that there were watches with 20217-8 case reference that did not have BA hands or lume on the ring?

That doesn't seem consistent with the Polarouter advert posted in this thread which describes and illustrates each of the case references.

Here is one:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Universal-G...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Mazoue · Jul 15, 2018

Thanks.

Difficult to say whether that's a 20217-8 variant without BA or a 20217-4 dial with a 20217-8 case (or even just the case back).

When I saw it, I assumed the latter mainly because the crown was wrong and the case looked very tired but it's not possible to be certain either way.

gop76 · Jul 16, 2018

Mazoue
Thanks.

Difficult to say whether that's a 20217-8 variant without BA or a 20217-4 dial with a 20217-8 case (or even just the case back).

When I saw it, I assumed the latter mainly because the crown was wrong and the case looked very tired but it's not possible to be certain either way.

Being the 20217-8 one of the least common variants, i don't found very likely that a case back from that variant was used in another watch where the correct was lost or damaged. It's possible but difficult, imo.

It's also possible, but even more dificult, imo, that, originally, was a 20217-8 BA but, due to damage or other, the dial, hands and chapter ring were all replaced.

We'll never know for sure unless another examples come to surface so, yes, my assertion that i was sure was exagerated

Anyway, the pics for posterity

FREDMAYCOIN · Nov 6, 2018

Mazoue · Nov 7, 2018

There's been a Polerouter with BA hands on eBay for a while.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-GENEVE-POLEROUTER-steel-AUTOMATIC/253924658239

The seller says it has an H 20217-8 case reference but it's not visible in the photographs.

The seconds hands is obviously a replacement and the lugs are a little over polished. I think the dial is ok but it's hard to tell from the photographs.

The question remains, would a 20217-8 have left the factory without lume on the ring?

Adam2941 · Nov 9, 2018

Mazoue
There's been a Polerouter with BA hands on eBay for a while.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-GENEVE-POLEROUTER-steel-AUTOMATIC/253924658239

The seller says it has an H 20217-8 case reference but it's not visible in the photographs.

The seconds hands is obviously a replacement and the lugs are a little over polished. I think the dial is ok but it's hard to tell from the photographs.

The question remains, would a 20217-8 have left the factory without lume on the ring?

I don't think it is possible that a broad arrow left the manufacture without lume on the chapter ring. The white second hand is clearly a replacement, and the chapter ring must have been either stripped or replaced at some point as well.

CLTMA · Feb 3, 2019

MaiLollo
Hello peeps. Sorry for the reply 1 year afterwards, but I was wondering if the hands on this stunner could be original or not ?
I have seen some microrotor Polerouters with arrow hands, but I've never seen a polerouter date with these hands... Any thoughts ?
Thnaks in advance !

Hey, I am the current owner of this beauty.... I don't know why its dial has the "Swiss T".. ? Why it is not the original hands? Thank you

Mazoue · Feb 3, 2019

CLTMA
Hey, I am the current owner of this beauty.... I don't know why its dial has the "Swiss T".. ? Why it is not the original hands? Thank you

This one?

The hands are not Polerouter Broad Arrow hands - compare them to others on this thread.

I'm afraid UG didn't make a Polerouter Date with Broad Arrow Hands.

CLTMA · Feb 3, 2019

Mazoue
This one?

The hands are not Polerouter Broad Arrow hands - compare them to others on this thread.

I'm afraid UG didn't make a Polerouter Date with Broad Arrow Hands.

Thank you for your answer. Besides, why there is the mention"Swiss T" and not only "Swiss"?

ConElPueblo · Feb 3, 2019

Mazoue
This one?

The hands are not Polerouter Broad Arrow hands - compare them to others on this thread.

I'm afraid UG didn't make a Polerouter Date with Broad Arrow Hands.

The hour hand looks very much like the one used on the Yema Superman. The other one I have seen on a number of cheap sixties skin divers.

CLTMA · Feb 4, 2019

MaiLollo
Hello peeps. Sorry for the reply 1 year afterwards, but I was wondering if the hands on this stunner could be original or not ?
I have seen some microrotor Polerouters with arrow hands, but I've never seen a polerouter date with these hands... Any thoughts ?
Thnaks in advance !

Does anyone has seen this specific configuration on a Polerouter dial yet?
Universal Geneve
Polerouter Date
Automatic
Microtor
Swiss T

CLTMA · Feb 4, 2019

Hey everyone,

Are we sure that there is no Polerouter DATE with Broad arrow?

https://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/VINTAG...LOT-WATCH-VERY-RARE-BROAD-ARROW-/191756052655

gatorcpa · Feb 4, 2019

CLTMA
Are we sure that there is no Polerouter DATE with Broad arrow?

Pretty sure, for the following reasons:

1. I've never seen a Polerouter with broad arrow hands and a microrotor movement.
2. I've never seen a Polerouter with a bumper movement and a date feature.
3. Until this post, I've never seen a Polerouter with broad arrow hands, a bumper movement and without radium on the internal chapter ring.

Therefore, I certainly look sideways at a Polerouter with a date, a microrotor movement, and broad arrow hands, but without radium on the chapter ring.😒

That one screams frankenwatch to me.
gatorcpa

Mazoue · Feb 4, 2019

I am sure that there was no Polerouter Date with broad arrow hands.

However I think the consensus is that there were broad arrow Polerouters with microtor movements. In fact, in the UG Polerouter reference site compiled by @CafeRacer, it confirms that the case reference is 20360/3 and 20360/4 and the reference gallery includes a photo of a 20360/4.

Mazoue · Feb 4, 2019

CLTMA
Does anyone has seen this specific configuration on a Polerouter dial yet?
Universal Geneve
Polerouter Date
Automatic
Microtor
Swiss T

I have not seen this combination. There is no example of this combination in the excellent Polarouter/Polerouter dial sticky thread and I can't find another example.

Assuming it is correct and not a redial, this is perhaps because there was a narrow window whilst the Cal 215 was still being used (hence the microtor on the dial) and Tritium had started to be used rather than radium (hence the Swiss 'T').

Could you please confirm the case reference and serial of the watch in question.

X350 XJR · Feb 4, 2019

CLTMA
Hey everyone,

Are we sure that there is no Polerouter DATE with Broad arrow?

https://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/VINTAG...LOT-WATCH-VERY-RARE-BROAD-ARROW-/191756052655

The hands and lume look far to fresh relative to the dial, which certainly doesn't help the case for the watch being genuine.

Mazoue · Feb 4, 2019

X350 XJR
The hands and lume look far to fresh relative to the dial, which certainly doesn't help the case for the watch being genuine.

Agreed. And genuine examples don't have lume plots on the dial either - they have lume on the ring.

LaurentBxl · Feb 4, 2019

guaranteed original and authentic, very rare, and coming from Brazil... and the account seems deleted...

bgrisso · Feb 5, 2019

this 20214-14 popped up on the bay last night....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Men-s-Universal-Geneve-Polerouter-Date-With-RARE-Broad-Arrow-hands-/123629886704?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=0J0MGeWGOrWVV%2BxL2v3fajheKCQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

seller offered to me at $750 but I was not confident. Assume chapter ring should be lumed? Also lume missing from hour hand. And not running, and no mvmt shot. And wrong crown. It sold quickly......

vujen · Feb 5, 2019

Woah, very nice! I've never seen it before.