Seamaster 300 165.024 Fake Kits

Posts
43
Likes
68
There has been several court case wins for the manufacturers over the last few years with millions in fines and compensation.

But while the "punishment" of individuals is so light compared to the gains they make there will always be the con men. The below is an example of what I mean, this was a court case in 2018 after four years of investigation.

 
Posts
23,129
Likes
51,630
Hi, I literally just saw this one on eBay, could it also be dodgy?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313686636181
Kr
Stephen

The photos show no Omega branding. However, my guess is that this is simply an end-around eBay rules. The parts they ship are probably branded as implied in the listing title and text.
Edited:
 
This website may earn commission from Ebay sales.
Posts
109
Likes
105
Thank you, I had a feeling, but the seller told me they were Omega service parts via eBay messages, so I was actually thinking of going for it, that could have been very messy.. Thanks guys, appreciate the help.
 
Posts
9
Likes
20
I am thinking of getting a "Watchco" Seamaster 300. I contacted About Time in New Zealand (which is the old Watchco company) and they don't have any parts left to make watches. I know that "Watchco" has become a generic term for any Seamaster 300 built from NOS or service parts. I am still seeing people supposedly building Watchco watches and I am wondering where the heck they are getting these parts from since they are not available (except maybe on exchange) from Omega anymore. Is there any way to tell if the case is original Omega or one of these fakes, which are still available on Etsy:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/116513...d71cdb1e1ccbbdd57ca989e3b518ea8fb1:1165131851

I've seen that the "A" in "Waterproof" on the case back should be flat on the top and many of the watches I am looking at are not like that, it's a pointed "A". Is this possibly an indication of a fake case back? Should the Omega service cases have serial numbers on the lugs?

I don't have too much of a problem getting a Watchco Seamaster, but prices have risen from $3K in years past to $4 - $5K now and for that kind of money I sure as heck want to get authentic parts rather than knock off, cheap copies.
 
Posts
441
Likes
1,382
Hey,

those kits are often/always full fakes.

If you look closely, you can still see evidence of the fake, even though the fakes have become very good in the meantime. In your example, look at the alignment of the white border of the date window.



I would just keep my eyes open here in the sales forum. good genuine specimens are offered here from time to time.
 
Posts
29,111
Likes
75,238
I've seen that the "A" in "Waterproof" on the case back should be flat on the top and many of the watches I am looking at are not like that, it's a pointed "A". Is this possibly an indication of a fake case back? Should the Omega service cases have serial numbers on the lugs?

That used to be a good tell, but no longer is. The last version of the case that Omega made has a pointy A, so there are genuine models out there with pointed A's.

There will be no serial number on the lug - Omega doesn't typically add serial numbers to cases that were made before they started adding them on new production cases.
 
Posts
9
Likes
20
Thanks Archer! That's a bummer though. I am looking to buy and if you can't tell fake parts from NOS or service parts, then it creates quite a dilemma. I have two sellers I am currently looking at and both can provide proof of the movement service, but no details on the authenticity of the parts, except their assurance that they are from Omega. But with Omega not supplying these parts anymore I am having a hard time "buying" it (pun intended). So it looks like if you want to get a "Watchco" watch these days you almost need to find one that is fully documented and verified to have been made in the past by Watchco!
 
Posts
16,307
Likes
44,981
So it looks like if you want to get a "Watchco" watch these days you almost need to find one that is fully documented and verified to have been made in the past by Watchco!
Not necessarily. These parts were available for many years through parts houses like Otto Frei and Cousins in the UK. They were also available to any watchmaker with a Swatchgroup account, so anyone could have built one- even the at home hobbiest for a time. Watchco just happened to be the company that was doing it en mass and from what I gathered, and are the reason the party is over.
Watchco was supposedly offering NOS movements in the early runs of their creations (note supposedly) but later ones were just movements they sourced from other watches they were scrounging up and building them due to demand (questionable what level of service they performed on these builds if at all).
From what I have read, the party was over by 2017. I have one of these very late builds that I got from a member here. The only documentation he has was the email receipt from watchco, and thats it. No packaging or certificate or anything- they just made it, shoved it in a Jiffy-pack and sent it in the mail with an email receipt.

It’s also important to note that as Archer said, there was a change in the case details in later years which can throw off anyone looking for one of these and comparing against another (he posted a thread on it a few years ago).

As always, buy the seller, make sure you post a listing here for the collective eyes to provide feedback, and make sure the watch comes with an inspection period to verify once you have it in hand.

These are a minefield, but you aren’t walking through it blind, nor without support.

Godspeed.
 
Posts
9
Likes
20
Thanks for the feedback! Yes, understood that the watch doesn't need to be made specifically by Watchco as many have made these watches. But either way it's still a minefield and having some documentation is pretty critical IMHO.

For example, I've been talking to a seller on Reddit recently and he just had his "Watchco" SM300 serviced. I asked for details like when did he buy the watch, who built it, etc. He didn't answer those questions, only providing some details on the service with much of the detail redacted. The service records showed a lot of timing variance and low amplitude, after the service. I took a pass on that one. I wasn't comfortable "buying" that seller.

I found another seller who had lots of pictures. After a lot of research I figured out that in the pictures was Omega packaging for the service case assembly, dial, etc. I feel a lot more confident about what I would be getting from this guy and just extended him an offer.

One item of note in my research - from the pictures of the fakes that I've seen they are trying to fake original, vintage watches. So the case backs appear to have the 166.024 part number while genuine "Watchco" watches will have the 166.0324 service part number. The Ebay fakes omit "Omega" from the triangle in the case back all together, so a clear giveaway!
 
Posts
29,111
Likes
75,238
I am looking to buy and if you can't tell fake parts from NOS or service parts, then it creates quite a dilemma.

I didn't say that you can't tell the difference, only that the change to the "A" was made so that is no longer a reliable tell.

One item of note in my research - from the pictures of the fakes that I've seen they are trying to fake original, vintage watches. So the case backs appear to have the 166.024 part number while genuine "Watchco" watches will have the 166.0324 service part number.

Just FYI that the 166.024 case backs are still available, and I've seen a number of people who have replaced the 166.0324 case back with the 166.024 to make it look less like a Watchco.

Really the thing is you need to educate yourself on these cases if you don't want to get burned. As Jw said, there are threads on here with a lot of detail, comparison photos, etc. that can be referred to.
 
Posts
111
Likes
138
Am I overlooking something or is it the same as with the watchcos?

Except the watchcos were original omega parts and buying those parts cost way more than $700 even back in the days watchco were doing them

My 'watchco SM300' was assembled by a reputable watch repair guy from a 1969 movement with black date, and NOS parts bought from Cousins at the time they were selling them way before the court case with LVMH. Costing these in parts alone was way over 2000$ at the time.

DSC-0301b.jpg
 
Posts
1,305
Likes
2,486
I bought my parts from Otto Frei many years ago and the cost was certainly upwards of $2000. Can't remember the exact year or prices without looking back at my records. Got the cal. 565 from a rough Geneve from the late 1960s. I had all but a few parts and sent them to a very reputable watchmaker for assembly. I'm happy I did it then; I would not want to navigate the market today. Reminds me mine is due for service.
 
Posts
1,305
Likes
2,486
What are you doing? Put these in a single post or start another thread. On topic, the first two are purporting to be genuine SM300 and not WatchCos at all.