Patek Philip ref 1436

erpin9 · Mar 9, 2020

I have been offered a very rare and iconic 1946 Patek ref 1436 rattrapante but it appears to have been redialed. My question is it still worth buying this watch? Will the factory restore such an important watch? Any advice would be appreciated.

ELV web · Mar 9, 2020

I won’t rule it out as complete redial, but the gold markers indeed do look problematic (I.e. it seems like markers were refurbished).

I Guess you already know that if you check the serial on the movement and case back and they match then it is a genuine article. And if that is the case, Patek would actually re-work the dial for you at a hefty price (but I think If this is a genuine article it is worth the effort and expense).

good luck.

Tony C. · Mar 9, 2020

I would not recommend buying a less than excellent, original, high-end vintage watch. The reason is that the market was already changing before the current economic turbulence. My view is that values will continue to fall for virtually all watches, but those in the best condition will retain higher percentages of their values.

A watch like this has a rapidly diminishing pool of interested buyers.

OmeGez · Mar 9, 2020

I’d want perfection at this price point or nothing at all.

erpin9 · Mar 9, 2020

Thanks for the reply. I was also informed by a PP collector that the factory will restore the whole watch but may take up to 2 years.

erpin9 · Mar 9, 2020

Tony C.
I would not recommend buying a less than excellent, original, high-end vintage watch. The reason is that the market was already changing before the current economic turbulence. My view is that values will continue to fall for virtually all watches, but those in the best condition will retain higher percentages of their values.

A watch like this has a rapidly diminishing pool of interested buyers.

Yes the vintage watch market is soft right now but if I can buy it for 30% of ito currently value, I might take the risk.

Tony C. · Mar 9, 2020

erpin9
Yes the vintage watch market is soft right now but if I can buy it for 30% of ito currently value, I might take the risk.

Do you expect the market to firm up anytime soon? If you are happy with the watch, and just want to wear it, that's great. But if resale value may be a concern in a year or two (or three or four...), I would suggest buying a better example.

erpin9 · Mar 9, 2020

My vintage watch dealer consulted his PP collector Friends who said that the dial looks origina but suggested to get an archive report from Patek just to make sure.

LarryG · Mar 9, 2020

That dial doesn't look copacetic to me.

Foo2rama · Mar 9, 2020

erpin9
Thanks for the reply. I was also informed by a PP collector that the factory will restore the whole watch but may take up to 2 years.

At what cost? And then what’s it worth as it is still not original.

to be honest I had questions about the movement until I saw the capped column wheel which then asks a different question. Was PP doing capped column wheels in 46? I thought it was a more modern requirement to comply with geneve certification and requisite mark.

Foo2rama · Mar 9, 2020

Foo2rama
At what cost? And then what’s it worth as it is still not original.

to be honest I had questions about the movement until I saw the capped column wheel which then asks a different question. Was PP doing capped column wheels in 46? I thought it was a more modern requirement to comply with geneve certification and requisite mark.

Ok did some research, PP did cap the column wheel in 1946... Learn something new every day.

erpin9 · Mar 10, 2020

The information gives to me that its from 1946 is incorrect. This watch is already a second generation which has a button on the crown to reset the split second hands and came out in 1960. All 1436s prior to 1960 would reset by pressing the crown itself.

erpin9 · Mar 10, 2020

LarryG
That dial doesn't look copacetic to me.

My exact sentiment too. Problem is the owner does not want anything to do with getting it checked by PP and securing an extract of archive. This is the reason why im haggling for a really low price.

Evitzee · Mar 10, 2020

Just be aware that for PP to service a rattrapante chronograph movement you are talking time and money. It would still be worth it IF you can get it at a good price. Dial could be original and would clean up nicely, hard to tell from the pics. I don't know what's going on with those lighter areas around the numerals.. PP has redone many of their vintage watch dials and if done by them to original specifications it does not have nearly as much effect on the value as a new dial does on more main line watches. Many of the PP's in their museum have had their dials redone. A rattrapante PP from that era is very desirable and will always be in demand, they didn't make that many of them. A complete overhaul and reconditioning from the factory would give you a spectacular piece, all depending on what you can get it for.

mancio · Mar 11, 2020

erpin9
The information gives to me that its from 1946 is incorrect. This watch is already a second generation which has a button on the crown to reset the split second hands and came out in 1960. All 1436s prior to 1960 would reset by pressing the crown itself.

Wait, this is a second generation right?
If so,there are few things that are "strange" to me. The dial and chrono hands seems to be of the previous model pre 1960 (actually for my limited PP knoledge, the Patek Philippe & co looks consistent with an early model of this reference, circa 1940/1945) but all the 1436 that i saw have a different scale. Although it could be a variant or a client request (not unusual).

The signs around the hour marker is not the first time that i see in a watch (no matter how expensive it is ) and mostly happens with applied marker like that and when the watch was used like this one.

In the end it could be good or not but it needs to be inspected by Patek Philippe, if the seller agreed......and i hope he would agree due the level and value of the watch.

oinkitt · Mar 11, 2020

I have a steel PP splitty.
This watch looks good to me. It all depends on the price I guess.

mancio · Mar 11, 2020

oinkitt
I have a steel PP splitty.

😲😲😲😲😲😲😲😲
Can we see it?😟

janice&fred · Mar 11, 2020

erpin9
This is the reason why im haggling for a really low price.

considering your location I would think you could buy that thing for pennies on the dollar. Grab it and get it fixed up.

Foo2rama · Mar 11, 2020

oinkitt
I have a steel PP splitty.
This watch looks good to me. It all depends on the price I guess.

That’s a bold claim.
Let’s see it and hear the story of how you got it!! Please!!! 😀

oinkitt · Mar 11, 2020

Foo2rama
That’s a bold claim.
Let’s see it and hear the story of how you got it!! Please!!! 😀

There are some things one shouldn't post on forums.

Most of the value in the watch is that it is not known to the market.

Posting pictures publicly would destroy that value.