Lange or Journe

Cozmopak · Dec 29, 2019

If you could pick one, which would it be? FP Journe or Lange Sohne? Is the build quality similar between the two or does one have an edge over the other? If you do prefer one over the other, which model do you believe is representative of the brand?

janice&fred · Dec 29, 2019

I prefer whichever one is more expensive.

jhross98 · Dec 29, 2019

Journe... Not the last few years models. Just look at the secondary market and it tells you all you need to know

Cozmopak · Dec 29, 2019

jhross98
Journe... Not the last few years models. Just look at the secondary market and it tells you all you need to know

In what way does the secondary market tell me what I need to know?

MTROIS · Dec 29, 2019

I absolutely love both brands, which are at the pinnacle of watchmaking, period! ...but if I had to pick one, I would go for a Journe watch. I just love their aesthetics much more than the German austerity that the Lange watches convey.
I don't think you could go wrong with either. Which models are you contemplating?

64Wing · Dec 29, 2019

I'd go with A. Lange & Söhne, myself. Just a more appealing design ethos in my opinion. From the standpoint of craftsmanship and technical execution, they're both just smashing brands

Edited for the sake of umlauts 😀

Cozmopak · Dec 30, 2019

MTROIS
I absolutely love both brands, which are at the pinnacle of watchmaking, period! ...but if I had to pick one, I would go for a Journe watch. I just love their aesthetics much more than the German austerity that the Lange watches convey.
I don't think you could go wrong with either. Which models are you contemplating?

Most likely entry level models like the souverain or the Lange 1. I like the chronometre bleu, but that one has exploded in value recently. If I could have any model from each, I’d probably go with one of the Octa watches from Journe and either the datpgraph or the zeitwerk from lange. Interestingly, aside from the bleu, most of these watches are selling for significantly less than retail on the secondary market.

blufinz52 · Dec 30, 2019

I can't afford either, but if I could, it would be Lange.

Cozmopak · Dec 30, 2019

One reason for purchasing a Lange is to admire the movement. That being said, I wonder why most of the movement on the Lange 1 is obscured by a large plate, whereas the movement is largely visible on their Datograph and Zeitwerk models. It seems kind of a shame. Does anyone know the answer? @Archer?

NGO1 · Dec 30, 2019

That large plate secured the components from shocks and vibrations. Makes the movements more reliable and less likely to fail. Also, that large plate reduces finishing work for Lange, helped keeping costs down.

NGO1 · Dec 30, 2019

Panerai claimed something like 40% improved in structural rigidity of movement with a back plate. Less service, more reliable. Here are photos of old P.999 movement and their updated P.1000.

Cozmopak · Dec 30, 2019

ngo516
That large plate secured the components from shocks and vibrations. Makes the movements more reliable and less likely to fail. Also, that large plate reduces finishing work for Lange, helped keeping costs down.

That makes sense and also explains why the Datograph and Zeitwerk are twice as expensive.

Archer · Dec 30, 2019

The 3/4 bridge is part of German watchmaking history. The transition from the 2/3 to the 3/4 bridge in Germany happened in the 1860's.

In a watch movement, each bridge is located and fastened to the main plate via screws, but also posts that do the actual locating. The locations of each jewel in the bridge determine the location of the wheel, and the spacing of these needs to be accurate. If the hole locations are out of tolerance, it can lead to spacing that is too far apart, too close together, or a wheel ends up tilted too much inside the movement, leading to power transmission problems. By making one large bridge instead of several small bridges, it was easier to prevent the stacking up of tolerances from each individual bridge causing a problem.

So in effect, the movement was able to be made more precisely this way. But today, it's more about tradition than anything technical.

Cheers, Al

Cozmopak · Dec 30, 2019

Archer
The 3/4 bridge is part of German watchmaking history. The transition from the 2/3 to the 3/4 bridge in Germany happened in the 1860's.

In a watch movement, each bridge is located and fastened to the main plate via screws, but also posts that do the actual locating. The locations of each jewel in the bridge determine the location of the wheel, and the spacing of these needs to be accurate. If the hole locations are out of tolerance, it can lead to spacing that is too far apart, too close together, or a wheel ends up tilted too much inside the movement, leading to power transmission problems. By making one large bridge instead of several small bridges, it was easier to prevent the stacking up of tolerances from each individual bridge causing a problem.

So in effect, the movement was able to be made more precisely this way. But today, it's more about tradition than anything technical.

Cheers, Al

As always, an excellent answer. Thank you. This also makes me respect the design that much more.

dsacks30 · Dec 30, 2019

Both are phenomenal brands with excellent finishing on their movements and a distinctive aesthetic - you can spot a Journe or a Lange from a mile away. You can't go wrong with either.

I think it depends a bit on the size of your collection. The Lange 1 would make a great one watch collection, whereas to me a Journe would make an excellent addition to a slightly larger collection and is less versatile.

If price isn't a consideration, I would get the Lange Datograph Up/Down. If Philippe Dufour says it is the best serially produced watch out there (and makes this watch his daily wearer) that is good enough for me! If you don't want to drop 72,000-85,000 euros, then I would get the Lange 1, which is the brand's most iconic model.

As for Journe, the Chronometre Bleu is just as unattainable as the Nautilus and commands a similar premium on the secondary market. It's a great looking watch, but assuming you don't want to pay that premium I would go for the Automatique Lune Havana.

Cozmopak · Dec 30, 2019

Or what about this “Datograph” on ebay?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/034-A-Lang...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I can’t believe people bid on this stuff...

jhross98 · Dec 30, 2019

Cozmopak
In what way does the secondary market tell me what I need to know?

Lange values have imploded the last several years. New watches routinely can be had at a 30 pct plus discount. Even the pinnacle of pinnacles the tourbillon pour la merite is down 50 pct peak to now. Something is very wrong in Lange world

Journe values are up 50 pct plus in the last few years with many non limited watches now trading above msrp on release as he has phased out older models (Patek strategy)

They will never stop making Lange 1s so the values will never hold

Totally apart from this, in my purely personal opinion, several other watches look like a lange. The first 10 years of journe to me are all time classic genta level design pieces and total originals

The new models, not my cup of tea but to each his own

Buy what you like of course.. But if you're the kind of guy who doesn't care what the secondary market value of your 50k watch purchase is likely to be than you also aren't probably the kind of guy asking opinions on a watch board...

durri70 · Dec 30, 2019

I would go for Journe, I love his design, caliber made of gold and .... I think will be the next Patek ... of course needs years ahead to become a solid brand . Future value ... who knows

mancio · Dec 30, 2019

FP Journe any day of the week, month, year.

Cozmopak · Dec 30, 2019

Yeah, can never predict future value. So much of the watch collecting conversation now revolves around predictions of future value, and that shouldn’t be the most important factor, but when spending this kind of money, it’s bound to creep up even for those who can afford it.

I love this watch:

Now I might have to take a hiatus for a few years to save up enough to purchase one, assuming they don’t go up in value!