Watch tools

CK90s · Jun 3, 2025

Hi everyone.

I've been a watch hobbyist for the past 2 yrs and have gradually improved my equipment. I want advice on different swiss made brands from Dumont (tweezers especially) vs Bergeon vs Horotec tools. What type of screwdriver blades work best, which oilers are better cause I've noticed there's different types of tips. And any other tools that can be cheaper than the swiss counter part.

Thank you
Chris

Archer · Jun 3, 2025

Cheaper is usually not better in my experience.

For screwdrivers VOH are the best in my view. Horia also make a good set at a more reasonable price.

For oilers, the Bergeon ergonomic oilers are excellent and I would never go back to any other.

Dumont make excellent tweezers, in particular the Dumostar range, but they seem to be more difficult to find these days. I use their #5 for balance spring work. Horia F type are good for hands, and for general assembly I use Bergeon bronze tweezers.

Horotec make decent tools, but some I’ve had a not as sturdy as I would like, but for a hobbyist they work okay. For example I have used their hand press, case/crystal press, and ended up replacing both with much better tools. I do use their case tube and pusher press, but it’s not as robust as I would prefer, as I ended up breaking one while trying to press out a case tube.

Again buying a good tool once will often save you money.

JimInOz · Jun 3, 2025

Bergeon are like the Rolex of tools, lots of advertising and influencers but the same quality as other Swiss stuff.
My screwdrivers are VOH and I haven't compared them to equivalent Bergeon's, but I'm more than satisfied with them.
My tweezers are mostly Dumont, no issues with them.
Pliers by AF, other tools by Horotec, can't say any of them have let me down.
Even some of the other Euro and Asian tools are of good enough quality for amateur watchmakers.

If you want to be scared by high prices, visit PP (no, not Patek, the other scary cost PP).

https://petitpierre.ch/en/watchmaking-tools/screwdriver/

CK90s · Jun 3, 2025

Archer
Cheaper is usually not better in my experience.

For screwdrivers VOH are the best in my view. Horia also make a good set at a more reasonable price.

For oilers, the Bergeon ergonomic oilers are excellent and I would never go back to any other.

Dumont make excellent tweezers, in particular the Dumostar range, but they seem to be more difficult to find these days. I use their #5 for balance spring work. Horia F type are good for hands, and for general assembly I use Bergeon bronze tweezers.

Horotec make decent tools, but some I’ve had a not as sturdy as I would like, but for a hobbyist they work okay. For example I have used their hand press, case/crystal press, and ended up replacing both with much better tools. I do use their case tube and pusher press, but it’s not as robust as I would prefer, as I ended up breaking one while trying to press out a case tube.

Again buying a good tool once will often save you money.

I'm not familiar with VOH brand, do you have pictures of them?
I agree with some horotec tools aren't as study as they should be, like the crystal screw press. So might end up looking for another press.
I was always keen on those oilers but would I just need the two small tip ones?

CK90s · Jun 3, 2025

JimInOz
Bergeon are like the Rolex of tools, lots of advertising and influencers but the same quality as other Swiss stuff.
My screwdrivers are VOH and I haven't compared them to equivalent Bergeon's, but I'm more than satisfied with them.
My tweezers are mostly Dumont, no issues with them.
Pliers by AF, other tools by Horotec, can't say any of them have let me down.
Even some of the other Euro and Asian tools are of good enough quality for amateur watchmakers.

If you want to be scared by high prices, visit PP (no, not Patek, the other scary cost PP).

https://petitpierre.ch/en/watchmaking-tools/screwdriver/

Yes I've seen the pp stuff and their prices 🤯
I've only got vintage pliers from lindstome Sweden.
Then a mix of all the others from swiss, German orasia

TasMike · Jun 3, 2025

C CK90s
I'm not familiar with VOH brand, do you have pictures of them?

https://voh.ch/en/produit/tournevis-voh-en/

JimInOz · Jun 4, 2025

C CK90s
I'm not familiar with VOH brand, do you have pictures of them?

noless · Jun 5, 2025

for oilers and driver blades i have found making them myself to be the best approach, that said making them yourself was also part of my schools assignments.

For tweezers I particularly like regine, something about the spring in them that i just like, I use their brass and nickel tweezers, for hairsprings I use dumont carbon steel but I also modified the tip quite extensively.

CK90s · Jun 5, 2025

noless
for oilers and driver blades i have found making them myself to be the best approach, that said making them yourself was also part of my schools assignments.

For tweezers I particularly like regine, something about the spring in them that i just like, I use their brass and nickel tweezers, for hairsprings I use dumont carbon steel but I also modified the tip quite extensively.

That's very cool how you went to a school that teaches you how to make tools. I wish I have a lathe but I also have a baby girl so money is more towards her than me. Although she will have a 1950s Omega 18ct gold with 14 diamonds watch. It's a 213cal and it's tricky to regulate cause the hairspring is slightly too long in my opinion or the bridge for the escapement wheel is too big and the regulator pins hit that when adjusting for the rate.

noless · Jun 5, 2025

certainly having a lathe is very useful for making tools, but we made the oilers with nothing more than an india stone and an arkansas stone and the staking tool, and the driver blades is just files and an india stone.

ExpiredWatchdog · Jun 13, 2025

Archer
For oilers, the Bergeon ergonomic oilers are excellent and I would never go back to any other.

In my mad dash to get ahead of "Liberation Day" I purchased this set. I paid $98 at Jules Borel.

I just went to check to see if they were what @Archer was referring to and I see they are now $170. Good thing we are "winning". We are going to need a lot of "winning" to afford living.

I do hope I never break them.

CK90s · Jul 21, 2025

noless
for oilers and driver blades i have found making them myself to be the best approach, that said making them yourself was also part of my schools assignments.

For tweezers I particularly like regine, something about the spring in them that i just like, I use their brass and nickel tweezers, for hairsprings I use dumont carbon steel but I also modified the tip quite extensively.

In regarding tweezers, I have the Horotec anti-magnetic ones and was thinking of upgrading to Dumont but not sure what would be best, dumostar or dumoxol besides price point

JimInOz · Jul 21, 2025

Tweezers are like screwdrivers, different tools for different purposes.
Don't just buy them because they're "the best" or "the most expensive".
Horotec make good tweezers and if you're happy with them and confident when using them I see no reason to change to another brand.

I use brass alloy Dumont #4 style for 90% of my work, and have a selection of other brands for other tasks.

I also use plastic tweezers for battery work and Delrin tipped ones for handling watch hands.

noless · Jul 22, 2025

I'm not sure moving from a horotec antimagnetic to a dumont antimagnetic would necessarily be an "upgrade" especially if you arent moving to a non stainless type tweezer, its also really a matter of personal preference and I think its pretty common to modify your tweezers to be to your own liking. The one thing i would really advise is finding a way to feel the tweezers in the hand before buying unless you can get them cheap second hand etc. because you really dont know how the spring feel will be until you try to use them. I personally prefer lighter spring in my tweezers, but everyone is different.

Archer · Jul 22, 2025

C CK90s
In regarding tweezers, I have the Horotec anti-magnetic ones and was thinking of upgrading to Dumont but not sure what would be best, dumostar or dumoxol besides price point

I use Dumostar #5's for balance spring work, and they are great for that. For regular assembly work, I don't feel that Dumostar would be any advantage.

vbomega · Jul 27, 2025

All of my tweezers are Dumont. IMO these are superb. I upgraded from #5 Dumoxel to #5 Dumostar years ago. Don't see any advantage to buying Dumostar for any other type of tweezer. I also use 1AM and 2AM bronze tweezers for pretty much everything else, and occasionally #3, for certain situations where it "feels right".

Re: Screwdrivers.
For a long time I used AF Switzerland drivers that are made in France. They are generally ok and ridiculously cheap. But for sizes 0.60, 0.80, and 1.00 I used Horotec Stainless Steel drivers. Much nicer.

Recently I purchased a set of VOH screwdrivers. These are certainly top grade. Do they make a huge difference for non-professionals? Probably not. A hobbyist can use Horotecs, not the aluminum range, but stainless steel. Their most recent redesign I actually like a lot - the "special knurled" ones, they are under $20 apiece. Very well made, very smooth, the price is 1/2 of VOH.

Bergeon "Ergonomic" oilers are clearly the best. I purchased a set a while back and never looked back. I only use the smallest one and the next one larger, so I could've just purchased these two instead of the whole set. These provide the most control over oil quantity and precision in placing the oil. There are some types of oilers that are like a needle - these are the worst IMO for both controlling the oil quantity and applying that oil.

vbomega · Jul 28, 2025

Here are the 4 screwdrivers to show the differences between AF Switzerland (France) design, old stainless steel Horotec with ball bearings, new stainless steel special knurled Horotec with ball bearings and VOH - also stainless steel, ball bearings. AF Switzerland is size 1.40 with the grey plastic band at the top. Old Horotec is next to AF Switzerland, new Horotec is between the old Horotec and the VOH.

Even the least expensive AF Switzerland is fine for a hobbyist. To clarify - AF Switzerland used to resell them, not manufacture. The actual screwdrivers are made in France and are dirt cheap. I refer to them as "AF Switzerland" because they used to be sold as such many years ago. The head spins just fine on this one and is sitting on top of one ball bearing. The other screwdrivers have multiple ball bearings in a circle. The difference is not very perceptible. The weak point of the cheap AF Switzerland is the plastic collar that joins the screwdriver body with the head. I had one screwdriver where it cracked after about 10 years and disengaged the top from the body. At less than $4 per screwdriver (Cousins, "Swiss style"), this is not a big deal. The top is made of nickel-plated brass. The plating will start peeling off eventually after heavy use. Also, not a big deal at under $4. The grip is very good, just as good as any other expensive screwdriver. The blade is blued steel, very similar to VOH, but a bit thicker at the tip.

For my most frequently used sizes I upgraded the AF Switzerland screwdrivers to old Horotec back 10 years ago. They used to cost around $14 if I remember correctly. They are also quite similar to VOH in design.

VOH set is insanely expensive but the screwdrivers are superb and the rotating base is fantastic.

The new Horotec feel almost as exquisite as VOHs at roughly half the price - they cost about $18 per driver. They also have very impressive blades, stainless steel hardened 54 HRC. I like the top as it accommodates the finger resting on top very nicely.

Hope this helps.

CK90s · Jul 31, 2025

V vbomega
Here are the 4 screwdrivers to show the differences between AF Switzerland (France) design, old stainless steel Horotec with ball bearings, new stainless steel special knurled Horotec with ball bearings and VOH - also stainless steel, ball bearings. AF Switzerland is size 1.40 with the grey plastic band at the top. Old Horotec is next to AF Switzerland, new Horotec is between the old Horotec and the VOH.

Even the least expensive AF Switzerland is fine for a hobbyist. To clarify - AF Switzerland used to resell them, not manufacture. The actual screwdrivers are made in France and are dirt cheap. I refer to them as "AF Switzerland" because they used to be sold as such many years ago. The head spins just fine on this one and is sitting on top of one ball bearing. The other screwdrivers have multiple ball bearings in a circle. The difference is not very perceptible. The weak point of the cheap AF Switzerland is the plastic collar that joins the screwdriver body with the head. I had one screwdriver where it cracked after about 10 years and disengaged the top from the body. At less than $4 per screwdriver (Cousins, "Swiss style"), this is not a big deal. The top is made of nickel-plated brass. The plating will start peeling off eventually after heavy use. Also, not a big deal at under $4. The grip is very good, just as good as any other expensive screwdriver. The blade is blued steel, very similar to VOH, but a bit thicker at the tip.

For my most frequently used sizes I upgraded the AF Switzerland screwdrivers to old Horotec back 10 years ago. They used to cost around $14 if I remember correctly. They are also quite similar to VOH in design.

VOH set is insanely expensive but the screwdrivers are superb and the rotating base is fantastic.

The new Horotec feel almost as exquisite as VOHs at roughly half the price - they cost about $18 per driver. They also have very impressive blades, stainless steel hardened 54 HRC. I like the top as it accommodates the finger resting on top very nicely.

Hope this helps.

Hi,
I went the aluminium horotec ones as I like the colour difference. Only problem is they don't slot in the case properly, I wish it was all foam inserts. I also recently got dumont tweezers, mainly dumoxal AA, #2, #3c, #4, #5 and brass AM & #7. Had to sharpen the tips on AA & 3c, is that unusual?

JimInOz · Jul 31, 2025

C CK90s
Had to sharpen the tips on AA & 3c, is that unusual?

No, like screwdriver blades, tweezer tips should be tailored/dressed for the job at hand.
And like screwdriver blades, tweezer tips will require regular maintenance to maintain their functionality.

vbomega · Jul 31, 2025

C CK90s
Hi,
I went the aluminium horotec ones as I like the colour difference. Only problem is they don't slot in the case properly, I wish it was all foam inserts. I also recently got dumont tweezers, mainly dumoxal AA, #2, #3c, #4, #5 and brass AM & #7. Had to sharpen the tips on AA & 3c, is that unusual?

Did you get them new or second-hand? The only tweezers I ever need to dress—rarely—are the brass ones. I also had to straighten and dress a pair that accidentally fell off the bench. When tweezers are used properly, it usually takes a very long time before they need any dressing.