- Posts
- 4
- Likes
- 0
Watch_J
·Trying to find a little more information on this watch. If anyone has any input, I would greatly appreciate it!
Vintage Heuer Chrono Question
- Posts
- 10,570
- Likes
- 12,065
Hubert
··TAG Heuer Forums ModeratorMoved your thread to the Vintage forum.
- Posts
- 4
- Likes
- 0
- Posts
- 482
- Likes
- 872
Thehighwayman
·I'll have a go, I'm no expert on really early Heuer's but I have handled many chronographs of a similar vintage.
These early ones are tough as many makers were using these generic cases and there isn't a lot of period documentation.
It's 18ct gold,a really thin caseback with a brass cuvette underneath to give it a bit of strength.
The central printed scale is very much a 1930's-40's thing and was used on some Heuer chronographs at that time.
A photo of the movement would be good, Valjoux 22 would probably be expected.
The first thing that really worries me though is the hands are wrong. They are much later, 60's or even 70's.
For that reason alone I'd tread carefully.
It's fair to say that more than a few chronos of this era have had a refinished dial and Heuer branding added.
You can see a couple of similar chronographs in the catalgue scans below.
These early ones are tough as many makers were using these generic cases and there isn't a lot of period documentation.
It's 18ct gold,a really thin caseback with a brass cuvette underneath to give it a bit of strength.
The central printed scale is very much a 1930's-40's thing and was used on some Heuer chronographs at that time.
A photo of the movement would be good, Valjoux 22 would probably be expected.
The first thing that really worries me though is the hands are wrong. They are much later, 60's or even 70's.
For that reason alone I'd tread carefully.
It's fair to say that more than a few chronos of this era have had a refinished dial and Heuer branding added.
You can see a couple of similar chronographs in the catalgue scans below.
Edited:
- Posts
- 4
- Likes
- 0
Watch_J
·I'll have a go, I'm no expert on really early Heuer's but I have handled many chronographs of a similar vintage.
These early ones are tough as many makers were using these generic cases and there isn't a lot of period documentation.
It's 18ct gold,a really thin caseback with a brass cuivette underneath to give it a bit of strength.
The central printed scale is very much a 1930's-40's thing and was used on some Heuer chronographs at that time.
A photo of the movement would be good, Valjoux 22 would probably be expected.
The first thing that really worries me though is the hands are wrong. They are much later, 60's or even 70's.
For that reason alone I'd tread carefully.
It's fair to say that more than a few chronos of this era have had a refinished dial and Heuer branding added.
You can see a couple of similar chronographs in the catalgue scans below.
Is it a concern that the dial is quite similar to a vintage Leonidas Chrono I found online? (Pictured). I understand that the two companies merged around this time. However, I’m very much not an expert at all.
Was Heuer outsourcing production of its components to third parties? Also, is it possible that the central scale was added later? It cuts off the bottom of the Heuer stamp and is not like that in any of your scans. I imagine that if the dial was stamped as Heuer it would have not been over the top of that scale?
Thanks again.
- Posts
- 482
- Likes
- 872
Thehighwayman
·The similarity to the Leonidas isn't a concern as such. As I say, there were many manufacturers using that central scale in the 1930's and using bought in cases and ebauche movements to assemble chronographs.
The Heuer stamp looks as though it was added over the top of the scale. It's of some concern but in itself isn't conclusively indicative of a problem. The branding was often the last thing added to the dial.
It's a nice watch but i'm not convinced it was always a Heuer, it doesn't feel "right" to me . Just my opinion, but if I was still a dealer I'd be very wary of it.
Those hour/minute hands certainly have no place on a 1930's~40's watch, on a watch in such apparently good preservation why would they be changed? A good restorer working on a genuine period Heuer would go to great lengths to source the right period style of hands if the originals were not serviceable.
The Leonidas you pictured is a good example of a watch that looks "right"
If I was to stick my neck way out and make an educated guess.. I'd say it was a 1950's or early 60's 18ct gold "Chronographe Suisse" that has been dressed up as a Heuer.
Doesn't mean I'm right, just my feeling based on handling a lot of vintage chronos.
The Heuer stamp looks as though it was added over the top of the scale. It's of some concern but in itself isn't conclusively indicative of a problem. The branding was often the last thing added to the dial.
It's a nice watch but i'm not convinced it was always a Heuer, it doesn't feel "right" to me . Just my opinion, but if I was still a dealer I'd be very wary of it.
Those hour/minute hands certainly have no place on a 1930's~40's watch, on a watch in such apparently good preservation why would they be changed? A good restorer working on a genuine period Heuer would go to great lengths to source the right period style of hands if the originals were not serviceable.
The Leonidas you pictured is a good example of a watch that looks "right"
If I was to stick my neck way out and make an educated guess.. I'd say it was a 1950's or early 60's 18ct gold "Chronographe Suisse" that has been dressed up as a Heuer.
Doesn't mean I'm right, just my feeling based on handling a lot of vintage chronos.
- Posts
- 4
- Likes
- 0
Watch_J
·The similarity to the Leonidas isn't a concern as such. As I say, there were many manufacturers using that central scale in the 1930's and using bought in cases and ebauche movements to assemble chronographs.
The Heuer stamp looks as though it was added over the top of the scale. It's of some concern but in itself isn't conclusively indicative of a problem. The branding was often the last thing added to the dial.
It's a nice watch but i'm not convinced it was always a Heuer, it doesn't feel "right" to me . Just my opinion, but if I was still a dealer I'd be very wary of it.
Those hour/minute hands certainly have no place on a 1930's~40's watch, on a watch in such apparently good preservation why would they be changed? A good restorer working on a genuine period Heuer would go to great lengths to source the right period style of hands if the originals were not serviceable.
The Leonidas you pictured is a good example of a watch that looks "right"
If I was to stick my neck way out and make an educated guess.. I'd say it was a 1950's or early 60's 18ct gold "Chronographe Suisse" that has been dressed up as a Heuer.
Doesn't mean I'm right, just my feeling based on handling a lot of vintage chronos.
Thank you so much for your time and insight, it’s been fantastic!
I just had a couple more questions, if you have the time.
The Heuer logo looks quite old. In your experience, has dial rebranding been around for a long time? As in, would a watchmaker have done this 30-50 years ago, or is it more of a modern trend?
Also, are there any marks or information I can get from the movement, inside case back, or perhaps under side of the dial that would help me determine the situation with this piece.
Thanks you once again, you’ve been a massive help.
- Posts
- 482
- Likes
- 872
Thehighwayman
·Thank you so much for your time and insight, it’s been fantastic!
I just had a couple more questions, if you have the time.
The Heuer logo looks quite old. In your experience, has dial rebranding been around for a long time? As in, would a watchmaker have done this 30-50 years ago, or is it more of a modern trend?
Also, are there any marks or information I can get from the movement, inside case back, or perhaps under side of the dial that would help me determine the situation with this piece.
Thanks you once again, you’ve been a massive help.
I'd say the dial is refinished,it lacks any real patina. Generally you see some degree of darkening,spotting and general ageing,much as seen on the Leonidas you posted. I could say with certainty that one has it's original dial.
Difficult to say when it might have been done. Dial refinishing has been around for a long time,it could be done for entirely legitimate reasons or with an aim to deceive.
Once Heuer watches really began to take off in value then unscrupulous souls suddenly realised they could make a fast profit by dressing up vintage chronographs as something they were not.Certainly could have been done 30 years ago.
The movement could give some clues. It may have have a Heuer engraving on the bridge,that wouldn't be definitive though,we see faked engravings too.Same applies to the inside of the caseback.
The actual movement calibre itself could be a clue,if the movement was not one known to be used by Heuer or was a calibre that didn't even exist until the 1950's for example.
You can see the movement calibre by looking near the balance wheel with a magnifying glass or loupe. There will be a logo for a maker such as Valjoux or Landeron and a calibre number.
- Posts
- 401
- Likes
- 946
Jeff Stein
·Run away from this watch. I do not recognize any element of the watch as having been made by Heuer - case, case-back, dial, hands, etc - all are wrong.
Jeff
Jeff