Vintage Grand Seiko Sharing Thread

Vintage Grand Seiko production began in 1960, and continued production of mechanical watches until the Quartz era in 1975. Seiko's 2 often competing Suwa and Daini factories both delivered a total of over 130 Grand Seiko references during this time, with the goal of producing the finest aesthetic and timekeeping watches to compete with the Swiss.
I had collected early Seiko watches, part of the Grand Seiko caliber lineage, but was intimidated by the number and breadth of Grand Seiko options. Several years ago I joined a Grand Seiko newsletter by a collector and dealer known as "TheGrandSeikoGuy" which provided information and guidance and after a year there I took the plunge. And the rest..........

Much is written and I will not try to re-create the history and review of GS, I am NOT an expert but just a happy collector floating along in this stream. I reference a number of information sources I found useful, and I hope you will also.

A few things I have learned:
1) Do your homework- each reference is rather unique, with specific dials, text and fonts, and cases. Similar to Omega- make sure you know the details of the reference you are considering before buying, and ask questions. There are many redials which can be very good, so detailed knowledge is a must. With a few exceptions, movements may not have serial numbers so knowing what version belongs in what case is important. Each reference "family: has its own specific movement. The numeric code first 4 numbers are the movement, and the second 4 numbers the case reference.
2) Its about the case- the Grand Seiko aesthetic is manifest with the design and polishing details of the case. Paying attention to sharp caselines and origiinal polish detail. An overly polished case really reduces the appeal and value, as with Omega. Most of the GS come from the Japanese market, and a lot of polishing occurred so it can be hard to find an original sharp case. Also pay attention to gold caseback medallion which is specific to the reference. Some fake medallions but usually pretty obvious.
3) Vintage GS prices are not as high as I had expected, decent examples from collectors can be found in $1000-2000 USD range, similar to Constellation prices. The 44GS, 45GS VFA (Very Fine Adjusted) are the highest price (5 figures) examples, but most other references are findable for less.
4) Vintage GS parts are hard to find, and not available from Seiko, so its good idea to connect with a watchmaker with vintage GS experience and connections for parts. Buying a second "donor" watch is a strategy to consider.
5) Good to excellent dials are not impossible to find- maybe the lacquer or paint was superior to many Swiss makes?- So you its a good idea to wait for an example without excessive patina, often noted on the dial edge.

References:
History of GS: https://grandseikogs9club.com/history/
Overview listing of references: https://www.theseikoguy.com/grand-seiko-vintage/
GrandSeikoGuy substack archive: 8 yrs invaluable reference with old catalogues: https://thegrandseikoguy.substack.com/archive?sort=new
https://wornandwound.com/art-time-taro-tanaka-seikos-grammar-design/
https://www.grand-seiko.com/ca-en/worldofgrandseiko/aboutgrandseiko/history?years=1960-1979
Bracelet review: https://www.plus9time.com/blog/2018/3/3/vintage-grand-seiko-bracelets
Service blog of 61GS: https://adventuresinamateurwatchfet...r-a-barrel-a-grand-seiko-6146-8000-from-1969/
IG account to follow for GS and KS, with many excellent examples for his collection: @b44x_watch

And finally- links to OF threads on vintage GS- with some wonderful watches OF members have shared here- worth perusing
https://omegaforums.net/threads/gs-5722-9990-with-unusual-5722b-chronometer-movement.177177/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/grand-seiko-6146-8040-kira-zuri.129145/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/strong-result-for-first-grand-seiko.152293/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/gs-5646-7010.130465/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/my-first-grand-seiko-the-6145-8000-from-1969.146894/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/a-special-seiko.4388/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/grand-seiko-chronometers.127053/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/seiko-5626-7090-help.136882/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/grand-seiko-first-j14070-cal-3180.120659/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/daini-and-suwa-grand-seiko-and-king-seiko-facts-and-myths.128643/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/the-holy-grail-of-seikos-4520-observatory-chronometer.67917/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/grand-seiko-first-carved-dial.126834/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/grand-seiko-appreciation-thread.119675/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/grand-seiko-4522-8000-medallion-issue.96656/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/grand-seiko-“first”-unboxing.75474/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-grand-seiko-cal-3180.68396/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/found-this-grand-seiko-4520-8000.68363/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/phi...g-icon-of-the-swiss-chronometer-trials.65641/

https://omegaforums.net/threads/1965-grand-seiko.30415/

And now some examples and comments from my collection. Please share yours!

6146-8000 SS 1969
My first GS, with the similar case design with typical "Grammar of Design" lines as 44 and 45 GS. This is rather large chunky watch on wrist, I think case has fairly well preserved lines, probably with light polish over the years. Gold medallion very good. Setting the day is PITA maybe the date only better for wear. High beat 36,000 bph, the seconds hand glides smoothly can hardly see the ticks.



6146-8000 Gold Cap 1968
The GC version does not have quite the sharp caselines as the SS. I was attracted by the eggshell dial color.


GS Second- Self Dater Chronometer (57 family)- 43999 1965 Regular dial
Earlier model with 43999 dial, marked on dial and caseback. This one has 5722A manual movement, which is probably correct for this case SN according to GrandSeikoGuy. Earliest models have 430 movement (see next watch). This one has preserved caselines not not the sharpest case. Note the original "coarse knurl" crown. A very elegant dress watch which lays quite flat, not as chunky as 61.


GS Second- Self Dater Chronometer- 43999- earlier version 1964 Special Dial
Earlier 1964 model with Special Dial- with different star beneath 35 jewels, and marked SD on dial text, and the earlier 430 manual movement, which is correct for this reference. So this one is more desireable that the 1965 watch. Note the service crown on this one with "fine knurl" I've thought about swapping the crowns, but havent yet. (Usually when I try something like this I can't get either one to fit and end up sending both watches to watchmaker)


GS 6246-9001 1967
A very different case known for ultra sharp caselines. Getting sharp case is essential on this one to appreciate the design. I just realized on the photo that the watch has shredded my shirt cuff! Case is curved and swooping and is the son of the Seikomatic Chronometer which was the same case and movement, later rebranded as GS. See example below. These tend to have well preserved dials- so dont settle for less than excellent dial condition. This one has a display caseback, I prefer the original caseback but havent changed back.


GS 6246-9000 1966
Earlier verion of above with Lion gold medallion. Note some oxidation on markers. GS 62 was first automatic movement GS. Note the dropout of gold on the medallion on Lions tail. This is typical how gold medallion wears.


Seikomatic Chronometer 6245-9000 1966
Same watch just re-branded as GS later in 1966. Harder to find than GS.


GS 4520-8000 1968
45GS from Daini factory, as was the 44GS. This movement was used for the VFA watches with very exact timekeeping. The 45 line is quite thin and wears well as dress watch. If someone wanted to start with just 1 vintage GS, this reference has the design and movement specs. This one is the no-date version. Case is pretty good, it has a replaced KS crown. There is a stain on the edge around 9-10 markers, which is common with GS so look at the dial edges carefully. These are a bit harder to find than the date versions.

GS 4522-8000 1971
This is the date version. This reference was given to 25 year employees by Toshiba, and this is an example with different marked caseback marked with year and kanji inscription. I've had several of these this one is best condition the caseback inscription is lightly etched prone to wear. The 45 movement has SN and is a thing of beauty.


6145-8050 1972 High beat
This reference is not that common, having been produced for just 2 months in April and May 1972. It came in several colors including white, blue and green, and maybe brown. Almost all of the blue dials have changed over the years to a uniform charcoal color, as this one. The reference came with special hardened steel case, as well as a vertically beveled thick crystal, which can be seen here. It also came with a special bracelet which is hard to find. I bought this one from TGSG, and was searching for the bracelet (there was one for $1400 in France and seller wouldnt budge), when I saw another one with charcoal dial from April with the bracelet. Needless to say I went for it and its shown here. Both have the bevelled crystal.

So thats it for now- I would like to find GS First as well as GS44, but its good to wish for thiings time will tell...
Thanks for looking and please post your GS watches!

Lovely gold case. I think from dial code it is a later example in gold cap? Can you share Caseback photo? I have not handled a 62 in gold it is very nice indeed!

Great post and pics, thanks for sharing!

Looks like a good job. Medsllion looks ok to me.

Wow!
Amazing collection, and a very nice write up!
Thanks!
👍👍👍

Thanks @SOG53 for starting this thread.
I'm a big fan of Grand Seiko and King Seiko. I've several King Seiko, but only one GS.

My contribution is a 6145-8000 that a bought a year of two ago. It's not a perfect example, the dial has some degradation, which is more noticeable in photos, but not so much on the wrist. I find myself wearing this watch a lot, despite having many other watches in better condition to choose from. I love it's understated, simplicity of design, the 36000bph movement and an over all feeling of good quality.



I'm currently after a GS with the hand wound 45GS movement. I like the re-issue, but there's no way I can afford one of those(!), so have been looking for a vintage piece with the 4522 movement...perhaps in gold cap, for a change?...or maybe the sought after 4522-7000 with the turtle shaped case??

There are some lovely examples in the posts above, so many to collect.

Amazing watches @SOG53. I have my sites set on a blue dial or textured vintage GS. I'm playing the long game and getting search notification on eBay. Like the 6145-8000 above, I was able to score a 6145-8000 from 1968 in '23. The watch was from the States, but came with a fresh Japanese service with paperwork and parts changed. This is an example of the early dial variation, that spells out Grand Seiko on the dial, where the newer ones, like the post above, had the GS alone on the lower dial. I paired it with suede crocodile strap, and what I hope is an original buckle. This my second Grand Seiko with the other being modern.

Very nice one. I think these have Grand Seiko written on rotor as well, but I may be thinking of another watch. Do you have movement shot?

Thanks Dan. Got a little carried away but hope the reference material is useful. There is a blog in the GrandSeikoGuy archives dedicated to buckles, and the one you show is the correct buckle style for the 43999. And the box is correct too. There is blog on boxes as well there aren’t as many box variants as Omega but there are specific correct pairings well documented and yours is one of them. Great sharp case I think you have a great example with the trappings! And correct original crown

Excellent review on this self Dater family from TGSG blog with movement - case matching info

https://thegrandseikoguy.substack.com/p/the-grand-seiko-self-dater-a-primer

It has the signed rotor. I am searching for the photo now and will post when I locate it.

Seeing some nice buckles. Here are the Buckle research threads from TGSG newsletter Part 1 and Part 2. I’ve pulled these from the archive reference above there is a real treasure trove there you have to scroll through it but many gems there

https://open.substack.com/pub/thegr...eiko-buckles?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

https://open.substack.com/pub/thegr...-buckles-675?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Well this thread inspired me to take on a new project. I have found a 1975 Grand Quartz 4843-7000, which is the predecessor to the Grand Seiko Quartz with +/- 5 seconds per month. This is nicknamed the 'Royal Oak' because of the Decagon Bezel. I found one in Japan with a broken movement and sourced a working movent dial and hands. I'd love to hear your opinions on the case condition, as I am considering having it refinished.

They are out of stock right now, but this is where I found my buckle though and you might check later. eBay link