UPDATE: Ford Lightning (Full Electric F-150) -> [NOT] refusing my order

Dan S
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
Yes Doug is, but that hill is about 30 degrees... I've been at that hill.

I'm sure one can cherry-pick a situation where the Rivian is better than a Wrangler if that's what you're trying to do. That gravel hill isn't a use case that matters too much to me, but even there I'd take a Rubicon with 33" tires and locking differential. I've seen various versions of this argument for decades now, and honestly I always hope that there will be a breakthrough technology. I will keep an eye on it, but I'm not convinced at the moment.
 
joeshoup
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Larry S Larry S
They are all over the place where I live. They are really cool looking but I could buy two Honda Ridgelines and have cash left over for the price of one of those.

You must live near me, we have two on the block. Neighbor works for Rivian. Great looking truck, though the continuous line headlight is spooky at night!
 
cvalue13
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
the answer is tires...

meaning the Rivian has sh*t tires and the F150L flags better tires?

Foo2rama Foo2rama
also note the R1S is much faster then the R1T...

For 0-60, looking around it seems they’re both within 0.1 seconds of 3.1 0-60, depending on the test. But that’s just a quick google - what gives?

Foo2rama Foo2rama
and the other in the 4's

In the wild, the F150L Lariat is clocking 3.8 second 0-60s. https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-lariat-first-test-0-60-review/amp/

Foo2rama Foo2rama
But If your wonder what 1 second difference looks like...

It’s undeniable that the Rivians 3 second 0-60, and especially it’s 0-30, are impressive. Full stop. And a 0.7 second 0-60 difference is significant, no doubt.

A dead horse at this point, but I just continue to not understand how the F150L is merely 0.7 behind given the combination of (1) the Rivian’s huge power-to-weight advantage, plus (2) the F150L’s lack of launch control and torque steering problems. When the F150L’s latter issues are addressed, I think (complete guess) it comes within 0.4 seconds of the Rivian - which is a completely unintuitive outcome given the Rivian’s on-paper advantages.

Foo2rama Foo2rama
TLDR its all bragging rights at that point.

Completely agree. But if I didn’t perseverate over meaningless minutiae I would become far too productive.

Dan S Dan S
If that floats your boat, great. Personally, I couldn't care less about racing/speed/acceleration, especially in a truck. As long as I can get up to speed on a highway and maintain 75 mph on climbs up mountain passes, I'm good.


Cool
 
Foo2rama
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@cvalue13

re: tires.

you only have so much grip on a tire but here is a thought experiment to explain.

you have 2 vehicles identical in every respect weight, weight balance, tires, coefficient of drag etc. But one makes 400hp the other 2,000 hp. Let’s put these on skinny tires.

both vehicles would be tire limited.

I know with only 333hp I can spin my tears with a wider tire…. Granted less weight. But my old ram could light up the rears with under 300hp and 400lb plus of torque at 30 mph running a wide 33 inch of road tire.

TLDR : I think both the Rivian and the Lightening are tire limited at the specified range and are at the max of the respective street tires that can’t be that soft due to the weight of the trucks.

if both trucks had drag radials on them I think you would see much different results as electric motors tend to have very linear power delivery making weight, and HP+Torque very defining of its max ability given perfect grip.


BCC02323-FA49-4B20-A1E1-2F62D65B043F.jpeg BDBB09DB-B527-4E52-A4A4-664529D0EE47.jpeg
 
cvalue13
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
TLDR : I think both the Rivian and the Lightening are tire limited at the specified range and are at the max of the respective street tires that can’t be that soft due to the weight of the trucks.

if both trucks had drag radials on them I think you would see much different results as electric motors tend to have very linear power delivery making weight, and HP+Torque very defining of its max ability given perfect grip.

I gotcha, and earlier wasn’t following exactly *which* “answer is tires”

and to the extent the answer comes down to tires, there’s for me two resulting thoughts:

(1) all the more likely the F150L can make up possibly significant time if Ford provides a launch sequence (and in that sequence a retune of the front power allocation causing all the torque steer), and

(2) id like to see a good review comparing the towing capabilities of the two trucks, which seems the main remaining possible utility of the Rivian’s extra HP/Tq stats
 
pdxleaf
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Aside from wanting new tires 😁, are you liking it? Specifically, how's your range anxiety? Are you obsessively tracking your kw per mile like a lot of people? Any difference between expected range vs actual driving? I suspect the heat is having an impact.
 
Foo2rama
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cvalue13 cvalue13
I gotcha, and earlier wasn’t following exactly *which* “answer is tires”

and to the extent the answer comes down to tires, there are for me two other thoughts:

(1) all the more likely the F150L can make up possibly significant time if Ford provides a launch sequence (and in that sequence a retune of the front power allocation causing all the torque steer), and

(2) id like to see a good review comparing the towing capabilities of the two trucks, which seems the main remaining possible utility of the Rivian’s extra HP/Tq stats

with electric motors and equal grip/weight, it’s all down to power. It’s not like a gas car where gearing can make a difference.

Power to weight is the main factor then grip.

At the same weight which the R1T and lightening are. The truck with less power and torque cannot be faster unless there is something else affecting it like grip or drag.

it’s physics.

In gas cars, you have torque curves, redlines, and gearing. These are not a factor with electric motors that do not have gearboxes.


This is why a 2004 M3 with only 333hp and 270 lb-feet of torque can beat a later mustang to 60 with 400hp and more torque even though they weigh the same. One revs to 8k and has a stronger torque curve, the other revs lower and torque falls off near the much lower redline.


More then a few videos on both of these towing exist.
Edited:
 
cvalue13
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Foo2rama Foo2rama
Power to weight is the main factor then grip.

at the same weight which the R1T and lightening are the truck with less power and torque cannot be faster unless there is something else effecting it like grip or drag.

Isn’t the F150L 2,000lbs lighter than the Rivian? which, if so, is perhaps the biggest difference maker here
 
Foo2rama
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cvalue13 cvalue13
Isn’t the F150L 2,000lbs lighter than the Rivian? which, if so, is perhaps the biggest difference maker here
Depending on options they are generally within 200 lbs of each other in general with the same range. But like for like they are 182lbs different according to testing.

Ford F-150 Lightning (extended range) 6,590 lbs 300 miles
Rivian R1T (large pack) 6,772 lbs 314 miles


Now the electric Hummer is over 9,000lbs...
 
cvalue13
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😁😁
Foo2rama Foo2rama
Depending on options they are generally within 200 lbs of each other in general with the same range. But like for like they are 182lbs different according to testing.

Ford F-150 Lightning (extended range) 6,590 lbs 300 miles
Rivian R1T (large pack) 6,772 lbs 314 miles
Now the electric Hummer is over 9,000lbs...

My 2K difference was a google artifact of instead comparing the curb weight of the Ford to the gross weight of the Rivian 😲

but as for your curb numbers: Like you I find the F150L at about 6,590, but the Rivian I see curb weight no lower than 7,150

a good 560lb difference.

hell, might even help the Rivian’s launch/traction advantage 😁
 
Foo2rama
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cvalue13 cvalue13
😁😁

My 2K difference was a google artifact of instead comparing the curb weight of the Ford to the gross weight of the

but as for your curb numbers: Like you I find the F150L at about 6,590, but the Rivian I see curb weight no lower than 7,150

a good 560lb difference.

hell, might even help the Rivian’s launch/traction advantage 😁


I’m going off numbers from someone who took them both to a track and used a car scale used for corner weighting race cars.

so…. Depends on where you get the info.
 
Foo2rama
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@cvalue13 where did you go? I was going to ask how you like your Lightening! been gone for 7 months!
 
watchyouwant
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All these Monster Trucks are just ugly. Why would anybody buy one , unless it's for Farming/construction business?
 
BlackTalon
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watchyouwant watchyouwant
All these Monster Trucks are just ugly. Why would anybody buy one , unless it's for Farming/construction business?
in the US? People who have white-collar and like country-western music.
 
cvalue13
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NGO1 NGO1
@cvalue13 welcomes a new baby not long ago, I think he’s busy with real life.

that, plus a career change (joined a small start-up), sure have taken up bandwidth!


Foo2rama Foo2rama
@cvalue13 where did you go? I was going to ask how you like your Lightening! been gone for 7 months!

Love this truck more than I ever expected. Setting aside the ‘fuel’ it runs on, it’s the best F150 they’ve ever made (I’ve been in F150s most of the last 30 years)

and as for the ‘fuel,’ it’s nice to have not been to a gas station pump for ~15 months

don’t know if I could ever go back to an ICE vehicle


watchyouwant watchyouwant
All these Monster Trucks are just ugly. Why would anybody buy one , unless it's for Farming/construction business?

It’s funny, because in the states an F150 is a pretty modestly sized truck! Seems downright reasonable next to an eg F350

but also, something under appreciated about full-sized trucks is the size of their back seat and how conducive it is for families: I have 3 little ones (5yo, 4yo, and 8mo), and the F150 can fit three full-sized car seats, that are easily accessible

between an F150 and a mini-van, it’s an easy choice for me. Especially since I do occasionally haul gravel and rock do a fare amount of gardening.

good to scroll through the forum, see some updates, and see that Omega is still in busines despite the swatch collaboration 😉
 
Foo2rama
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IMG_9026.jpeg IMG_9007.jpeg IMG_1651.jpeg


Loving this so far. Miss the sound of an engine so far. Learning all the stuff that no one tells you about charging. Which is a downside.
 
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