Universal Geneve Full Calendar Moonphase

Hello guys,

I have recently purchased this watch from Auctionata and I have also read some of the threads here discussing & evaluating UG watches. I was wondering if you guys can give this a quick look and give your opinion about the validity of the details disclosed in the auction?5

http://auctionata.com/o/73617/universal-geneve-full-calendar-ref-11303-around-1955

What I have deciphered so far from reading the forum:
-The serial number of this watch is 11XXXXXX which suggests it was produced in 1940s and not 1955 as mentioned in the details
-The reference number of 11303 (first digit suggests 18kt gold, second digit of '1' suggests non chronograph and time-only function
-It is a Portuguese language dial (SEX being Sexta Feira or sixth fair = Friday where Domingo/Day of god/First day = Sunday )

Can you guys comment on things such as:
-Condition of the watch
-Do the parts look original
-What does the '254405' on inside of the watch parts suggests?
-What information can be deciphered from the inside of the back case? (besides 18 kt and 0.75 or 75% gold)
-Perceived age of the watch - is it 1955 or 1940s like the Sala book suggested? (I don't have the book, just got the information from reading the forum)

Thanks! Great forum and plenty of UG information to be read.

Hi,
mine is 14XXXXXX and is from 1949, yours is probably 46-47. There is a list of serial numbers I found time ago goggling from which Ideterminated the age of my watch, but I can't find it anymore

Beautiful watch. Were you able confirm whether or not the dial has been touched up? I'm learning that there are a lot of older re- dials out there and re-dialers who are wizards at making recent re-paints and touch ups look aged . I wrote the same exact thing about another UG 40's winder the other day and Lou in addition to one of our Italian friends (All vintage UG chronos pass through Italy at one time or another - if thermodynamics is the iron law of physics then all UG chronos go through Italy is the iron law of vintage watches) confirmed what I was only guessing: it was a re-printed dial.

Teodoro Freeman Thanks Teodoro, I was referring to that list citizenrich posted and it looks like I'm in the 1945 range.

citizenrich I am not sure if it has been repainted. My untrained eyes think otherwise and I cannot be certain if this watch passed through Italy or not but it was sold through Auctionata which is located in Germany.

Can anyone comment on the watch in terms of the 18kt 0.75 rating - Does this tell whether it's gold plated, or if the entire watch is made out of the gold alloy?

I have only one UG in my collection , your triple date moonphase looks to be a redial.The size hurts it some, 33 m.m. is small on todays standards . I sold a 14k one on ebay for $ 1431.00 . It had a beautiful dial. I should of probably brought more, I think size does matter in this case !

rolokr What gives you the clue that it is a redial? And by redial, do you mean it was republished/refinished or did you mean it was replaced with a non-original dial? I did notice you thread selling a similar watch but I didn't see any case reference on the back of your case back (maybe polished away?) so I couldn't tell the age or reference number of your watch. Our case has different width though, mine appears thicker and rounder and our hour markers are different too.

Yes your watch has a nicer case, the original dial usually has red on the date register and ridges. You should have circular concentric circles in the register and swiss written at the bottom on the dial ! Look at the dial under magnification.

I'm not sure how experienced a collector you are and I certainly don't want insult you but be forewarned: vintage chronos, especially UG, can be a serious snake pit. Dials are everything in this game and dealers, agents and brokers will do everything in their power to get you to focus on everything but the dial.

As an example: the following (2) watches are identical except for being made (3) years apart. One of the watches is completely original and untouched, the other is original save for the lume being touched up by a well meaning watchmaker at some in the life of this watch. It was most likely done 45 or 50 years ago.

The totally original watch is 200% more valuable than the watch which is also original (except a watchmaker touched up part of the dial). In a straight auction, the completely original watch could hammer at 3 x's the price of the other watch if they were auctioned together. It took me a long time to wrap my mind around this sort of inanity.

rolokr The red register you were referring to, are you referring to the '31'? If so, it is red on my watch if you look closely. If not then I'm clearly missing something. Don't quite understand the concentric circles part, but I notice the 'Swiss' thing that you mentioned. Could be that it worn off of the dial though. Rolokr, do you think my dial is replaced, or if it was just "cleaned" / polished? And are you suggesting that the dial might not be original?

citizenrich No worries about being insulting. I am a newbie and this is my first vintage / first UG watch and I am here to learn. Is the second watch you posted retouched on the numbers? (1-12?) or which part were you referring to? I certainly understand that a refinished dial might be significant in the value of a vintage watch.