Took the plunge on a Tricompax

ELV web · Mar 2, 2014

Gold Dial, I'm not even sure it is redial or not because of the date numbers (9 and 6 are fully closed). Any opinions more than welcomed (I hope my luck is not too bad)? Anyhow, thanks once again for all the great sharing we got here. I also just took a plunge on another triple date with moonphase, will put a post up once it arrives 😀

Cheers,
Eric

JohnSteed · Mar 2, 2014

brave soul, always encouraged 😉

more experience UG guys will soon chime in

ELV web · Mar 2, 2014

Case looks correct, Ref. no. 22258, on Sala page 361 seems to show the same....., But it is the dial that got me a bit worried. Looks too good for the age (and Freccero, although a legitimate retailer, doesn't seem to appear anywhere on Sala's).

JohnSteed · Mar 2, 2014

Sala a good reference.

Some patination on the dial could likely be expected. However, seems generally any fading/patination should match throughout, including for example the moon-phase?

ELV web · Mar 3, 2014

Thanks John, the moonphase also looks too pale like you said....

LouS · Mar 3, 2014

I haven't seen a Freccero dial before, but I have no reason to doubt that this one is original. I do have some doubt that this dial started in this case. I should preface this my saying I have not made a careful study of the topic, but it is my impression that serial numbers on the movement are an early feature. Does the case number also suggest an early date of production? And as you note, the moonphase disc is in much worse shape than the dial.

On the other hand, UG had a habit of assembling cases and dials in all sorts of combinations.

woodwkr2 · Mar 3, 2014

The dial looks original to me, though I too question whether it started in that case. The gold/champagne/salmon colored dials were typically paired with solid gold (yellow or rose) cases. That's not to say that a steel combo is impossible, but given the extreme fading on the moonphase disc, I suspect that the dial is a transplant.

The place where you acquired it has a good reputation, and would no doubt take it back if your doubts overwhelm your enjoyment.

I think it's a beautiful find and would wear it and enjoy it.

ELV web · Mar 3, 2014

Thanks guys, the serial no. is 1156400. It could very likely be a NOS transplant or something along that line. I will try to study more too about this dial variant vs. the case. Any insights from here will be much appreciated.

woodwkr2 · Mar 3, 2014

Does the hour recorder (sub dial at 6 o'clock) reset to zero? If it does not, I would return it and ask that the watchmaker re-set the hands.

ELV web · Mar 3, 2014

It does, all functions are working fine actually. The only problem I have is the dial looks too pristine. will try to find out about UG sold at freccero, I do have some chance to go to uruguay on work, and will dtop by the shops when there. Will keep you posted. Also receiving another triple calendar tomorrow, will post some shots for advise 😀

LouS · Mar 3, 2014

ELV web
Also receiving another triple calendar tomorrow, will post some shots for advise 😀

Good plan. They are a pain to set every time you put them on, so you better get one for every day of the month. And day of the week. And month of the year. And day of the moonphase.😁

ELV web · Mar 3, 2014

woodwkr2
The dial looks original to me, though I too question whether it started in that case. The gold/champagne/salmon colored dials were typically paired with solid gold (yellow or rose) cases. That's not to say that a steel combo is impossible, but given the extreme fading on the moonphase disc, I suspect that the dial is a transplant.

The place where you acquired it has a good reputation, and would no doubt take it back if your doubts overwhelm your enjoyment.

I think it's a beautiful find and would wear it and enjoy it.

I also think so, definitely will keep it even if the dial is a replant 😀

citizenrich · Mar 3, 2014

Freccero sold a ton of UG's in 1950's.

ELV web · Mar 4, 2014

citizenrich
Freccero sold a ton of UG's in 1950's.

That is great, hope I can find more freccero dial variation when I am in South America 😀

citizenrich · Mar 6, 2014

Here's some good news? This is a high def. snapshot of the die stamp they used on factory dials. Font looks identical to my untrained eye. I think Freccero just placed their logo where they felt like it? seems that way...

BTW - a little over polished but (((drool))) Patek.

woodwkr2 · Mar 6, 2014

citizenrich
Here's some good news? This is a high def. snapshot of the die stamp they used on factory dials. Font looks identical to my untrained eye. I think Freccero just placed their logo where they felt like it? seems that way...

BTW - a little over polished but (((drool))) Patek.

At least in the modern era, the original manufacturer, here Patek, is the party responsible for inking the retailer name. There's a nice video on Hodinkee where they stamp one of the Tiffany dials. It's not done willy nilly.

It makes sense that this would hold for vintage pieces too, as I don't know of many retailers that want to buy the pad printing machines and invest in the production process just to stamp their name--nor of too many manufacturers that would give up control of their most visible face to the consumer. The dials were produced for the manufacturer to their specs, which were then cased up in Switzerland (if the casing did not occur in the country of sale to avoid usurious taxation) and sent to the retailer/authorized importer in batches.

To your point, it wouldn't surprise me if Patek and Universal dials were both made by the same dial maker. Most manufacturers still outsource many of the parts that comprise their "in house" movements. Dials, hairsprings, mainsprings, crystals, etc. Even George Daniels who was renowned for making every part by hand took this approach.

woodwkr2 · Mar 6, 2014

citizenrich
perhaps I'm misinformed but certain retailers absolutely stamped their own names on watch dials. I don't have any branded pateks or ug's but I have a branded serpico y laino rolex which has their charming mismatched colored store logo on the dial. There's a lot of debate in the rolex community about what's legit and what's not so additional provenance is always a must. I don't have an electronic pic of my watch because there was no digital photography when I put it away (hahaha I'm getting old!) but I found a pic of the same watch on the intertubes.

none of what I wrote means anything if UG didn't allow anyone to touch their dials. I also think the more important point is that the fonts appear to match. Seems like a good sign. 😀

I'm rooting for the original poster and I hope he gets past that little buyers remorse. The best watches I ever bought were the ones I had the worst vibes about; especially the ones i was certain I overpaid for.

Super interesting. I found this fantastic article on the Rolex Passion Report here. (Really worth a read!) Apparently they were issued with Rolex-authorized imprints of Serpico y Laino.

So it sounds like the thinking in the vintage Rolex community is that Serpico y Laino physically stamped the dials themselves--hence the different color and font? As opposed to Serpico y Laino specifying their font and color and having the original dial manufacturer print them?

woodwkr2 · Mar 6, 2014

Here's the link to the Hodinkee article on the stamping of the "Tiffany" dial. Done, notably, at the Patek service center in NYC, by Patek technicians.

There's a video around somewhere too.

Does Rolex still produce (or authorize) any co-branded dials these days?

ELV web · Mar 6, 2014

You mean something like this.....

citizenrich · Mar 6, 2014