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Thoughts on the timegrapher readings for this Patek.
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ChrisN
·What are you seeing that makes you think it needs a service?
I would say that a timegrapher isn't the best indicator of whether a watch needs a service and it really needs to be open for inspection. If you do use a timegrapher, put the watch in the correct way around so you don't scratch the case and the microphone can hear the escapement better. I believe the lift angle for this calibre is 51 degrees and so, the amplitude shown is a little higher than reality. If this is a dealer selling Patek watches, I would have expected a more professional timegrapher setup and possibly an associated watchmaker who could make these things clear - for example, are these pictures at full wind?
I would not read any possible service requirements from these pictures.
Good luck, Chris
I would say that a timegrapher isn't the best indicator of whether a watch needs a service and it really needs to be open for inspection. If you do use a timegrapher, put the watch in the correct way around so you don't scratch the case and the microphone can hear the escapement better. I believe the lift angle for this calibre is 51 degrees and so, the amplitude shown is a little higher than reality. If this is a dealer selling Patek watches, I would have expected a more professional timegrapher setup and possibly an associated watchmaker who could make these things clear - for example, are these pictures at full wind?
I would not read any possible service requirements from these pictures.
Good luck, Chris
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JimInOz
··Melbourne Australia...............................
I would not read any possible service requirements from these pictures.
Good luck, Chris
But Chris, can't you see the selection of (dust covered) loupes in front of the timegrapher?
Going by those, this is obviously a professional watchmaker's setup 😗.
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Vizard
·What are you seeing that makes you think it needs a service?
I would say that a timegrapher isn't the best indicator of whether a watch needs a service and it really needs to be open for inspection. If you do use a timegrapher, put the watch in the correct way around so you don't scratch the case and the microphone can hear the escapement better. I believe the lift angle for this calibre is 51 degrees and so, the amplitude shown is a little higher than reality. If this is a dealer selling Patek watches, I would have expected a more professional timegrapher setup and possibly an associated watchmaker who could make these things clear - for example, are these pictures at full wind?
I would not read any possible service requirements from these pictures.
Good luck, Chris
I am not experienced with Patek, but I'd expect to see amplitude at 300 or so. The fact that it is running slow and has no service history amplifies my thoughts. Edited to add, I am not sure exactly what the trace line signifies, but my healthy watches have a solid continuous line, whereas the less good ones I've tested have two parallel lines.
With regard to how the watch is positioned in the timegrapher. Those are the dealer's photos.
I am no expert, but my own timegrapher (the same model) isn't fussy about which way the watch is inserted.
Edited:
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ChrisN
·A beat error of 0.1 ms is fine but the graphs on these Weishi timegraphers often look a bit odd with wide spacing for a 0.1 ms error. Have a read of this thread which may make some things clearer (possibly not😁):
https://omegaforums.net/threads/amplitude-debate.78234/
If the lift angle is 51 degrees, then the amplitudes shown will drop by about 6 degrees but, it is hard to make any meaningful statement about the watch service requirements just based on these two graphs so, I would insist on the dealer including a full service for such an expensive watch, or discount the price for a Patek service which will be a lot of money obviously.
Cheers, Chris
https://omegaforums.net/threads/amplitude-debate.78234/
If the lift angle is 51 degrees, then the amplitudes shown will drop by about 6 degrees but, it is hard to make any meaningful statement about the watch service requirements just based on these two graphs so, I would insist on the dealer including a full service for such an expensive watch, or discount the price for a Patek service which will be a lot of money obviously.
Cheers, Chris
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Vizard
·A beat error of 0.1 ms is fine but the graphs on these Weishi timegraphers often look a bit odd with wide spacing for a 0.1 ms error. Have a read of this thread which may make some things clearer (possibly not😁):
https://omegaforums.net/threads/amplitude-debate.78234/
If the lift angle is 51 degrees, then the amplitudes shown will drop by about 6 degrees but, it is hard to make any meaningful statement about the watch service requirements just based on these two graphs so, I would insist on the dealer including a full service for such an expensive watch, or discount the price for a Patek service which will be a lot of money obviously.
Cheers, Chris
The dealer was quite resistant to negotiation and I pretty much had to pull out before he would even send the time grapher images.
By the time I have the watch in the UK it will owe me top dollar and if I then have to have it serviced it will be far too pricey.
I have a rule where second hand watches are concerned. I need to trust the seller and usually the watch needs to be freshly serviced. I think I should probably stick with those rules and move on.
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Canuck
·The dealer was quite resistant to negotiation and I pretty much had to pull out before he would even send the time grapher images.
By the time I have the watch in the UK it will owe me top dollar and if I then have to have it serviced it will be far too pricey.
I have a rule where second hand watches are concerned. I need to trust the seller and usually the watch needs to be freshly serviced. I think I should probably stick with those rules and move on.
A good idea to always service a pre-owned watch to protect your investment. Even if it comes to you as “serviced”.
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Vizard
·A good idea to always service a pre-owned watch to protect your investment. Even if it comes to you as “serviced”.
To be clear, the used watches I have bought have either come from dealers who I know will service them properly, or more usually they have been fresh from manufacturer service. In either case I would not then service again.
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Canuck
·Well then, why not service it “properly” as you suggest, put back on the timing machine, and get back to us with a report on its performance. Sounds to me like you might be capable of doing a better job than the last guy who worked on it.
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Vizard
·Well then, why not service it “properly” as you suggest, put back on the timing machine, and get back to us with a report on its performance. Sounds to me like you might be capable of doing a better job than the last guy who worked on it.
Not sure I follow you. It isn't my watch. It is one that I have been considering buying, but the cost of importing it AND a service make it non-viable.
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Canuck
·Is there such a thing as putting too much faith in what the seller might have done to the watch before offering it for sale? I don’t know if there is an answer to your dilemma. If you wouldn’t pay the extra to service the watch once you bought it, what makes you think the seller would pay the extra to service it properly, before offering it for sale?
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Vizard
·Is there such a thing as putting too much faith in what the seller might have done to the watch before offering it for sale? I don’t know if there is an answer to your dilemma. If you wouldn’t pay the extra to service the watch once you bought it, what makes you think the seller would pay the extra to service it properly, before offering it for sale?
I rather think he hasn't! Nor is he claiming to have. I would imagine that the case has never been opened, but they've given it a polish (expertly or otherwise) and added a new strap.
It may be a similar situation to the Omega I bought a few weeks ago. Looked good on the outside, probably not as good on the inside.
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Canuck
·I rather think he hasn't! Nor is he claiming to have. I would imagine that the case has never been opened, but they've given it a polish (expertly or otherwise) and added a new strap.
It may be a similar situation to the Omega I bought a few weeks ago. Looked good on the outside, probably not as good on the inside.
Well then, I guess we need to follow the time honoured necessity of servicing everything you buy, regardless of whether it makes economic sense, or not! I believe this was suggested earlier in your thread.
p. s. I am impressed with your Bentley convertible! Can servicing the Patek really be that big a deal?
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Vizard
·Well then, I guess we need to follow the time honoured necessity of servicing everything you buy, regardless of whether it makes economic sense, or not! I believe this was suggested earlier in your thread.
p. s. I am impressed with your Bentley convertible! Can servicing the Patek really be that big a deal?
I don't want that watch badly enough to have it at any price (the Bentley does 12-15 miles per gallon and doesn't fuel itself!). By the time I had it in the UK it would owe me £18500-19000. A service on top, what? £1k? Then Patek would want to have it for 3-6 months I am guessing.
Our local Patek AD has a 5227 fresh from Patek service for £20k. But it's rose gold and 39mm. I want yellow gold and 36-37mm.
I suspect that if I wait long enough I will find one fresh from service at Patek.
There is also the small matter that I don't altogether trust the seller of this one and I would want to see it myself. Florida isn't just down the road for me.