Redial Pre Polerouter 1958?

WatchGreek
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What do you think?

I'm not a big expert, but the lack of the è in ‘Genève’ raises a red flag. Additional internet searches turned up nothing - I couldn’t find this model anywhere..


Obviously redial and move on, or maybe ligit?


Thanks for your help!


According to the listing:

Model: Pre Polerouter Micro Rotor​

Reference: 20358-2​

Year: 1957 /1959 (Serial number 198xxxx)​

Dimensions: 34mm​

Dial: Original black, unpainted in very good condition​

Housing: Steel​

Movement: Automatic​

Caliber: UG 215​


Screenshot 2025-11-02 at 14.54.44.webp Screenshot 2025-11-02 at 14.55.38.webp Screenshot 2025-11-02 at 14.56.30.webp Screenshot 2025-11-02 at 14.56.42.webp
 
Dan S
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Not sure if it’s just bad lighting in the photos but it Looks like something weird going on with the paint around the markers.
 
Mazoue
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This watch and another near identical example sold very recently at auction in France. The catalogue also described it as a 'pre Polerouter', which made little sense given that the serial dates it to 1957-59.

It is a US market Polerouter Jet. The dial looks original to me.

A 20358-1 (the OP watch is a 20358-2) features in the UG archives with a white dial and Polerouter Jet text.

A very similar US market reference, the 20361-1, is pictured below (courtesy of the Polerouter book).

Jet 59 Hero.webp
 
Tony C.
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Likely original, IMO. There were non-Polerouter microrotor automatics made.
 
Dan S
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Mazoue Mazoue
This watch and another near identical example sold very recently at auction in France. The catalogue also described it as a 'pre Polerouter', which made little sense given that the serial dates it to 1957-59.

It is a US market Polerouter Jet. The dial looks original to me.

A 20358-1 (the OP watch is a 20358-2) features in the UG archives with a white dial and Polerouter Jet text.

A very similar US market reference, the 20361-1, is pictured below (courtesy of the Polerouter book).

Jet 59 Hero.webp
I see, it’s an embossed dial. That’s why it looks strange in the photos.
 
Passover
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References 20357 and 20360 are classic Polerouters with 215 movements

Pol(a)erouters were available from 1954

the informations from the seller (Pre-Polerouter) doesn't make sense IMO
 
Larry S
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Looks fine to me. Not a redial.
 
WatchGreek
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Mazoue Mazoue
This watch and another near identical example sold very recently at auction in France. The catalogue also described it as a 'pre Polerouter', which made little sense given that the serial dates it to 1957-59.

It is a US market Polerouter Jet. The dial looks original to me.

A 20358-1 (the OP watch is a 20358-2) features in the UG archives with a white dial and Polerouter Jet text.

A very similar US market reference, the 20361-1, is pictured below (courtesy of the Polerouter book).

Jet 59 Hero.webp
just saw that - sold in auction for 1500.. and they want 2900 hahhaahah
 
WatchGreek
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A couple of weeks ago I asked here whether this black-dial Universal Genève had a redial or an original dial. The consensus was that it’s original. Again, thank you.


At the time I walked away from the sale, but the watch stayed in the back of my mind. I just couldn't forget it. I really love dark/black dial watches, but unfortunately they only make up a small percentage of vintage pieces..


The dealer is asking 2,800 EUR. I also know he paid 1,040 EUR at auction for this piece...


If I pay 2,800 EUR for this watch, how bad is it? real bad? or still within a somewhat acceptable range given it’s a black dial UG?



Would really appreciate any honest opinions - am I being stupid here? maybe i just need someone to tell me i am stupid..
 
Porteroso
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I think you could get it for a bit less. 2400? They let you propose 2475.
 
Dan S
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I think that the auction price probably gives you a reasonably accurate view of fair market value, unless it was listed horribly in the auction, or there was something wrong with it that has now been repaired.

It's totally up to you how much you're willing to pay for it.
 
Mazoue
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I can't disagree with the argument that the auction gave a good indication of its market value.

That said, I was slightly surprised at the hammer price and a little frustrated that I hadn't bid.
 
WatchGreek
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Mazoue Mazoue
I can't disagree with the argument that the auction gave a good indication of its market value.

That said, I was slightly surprised at the hammer price and a little frustrated that I hadn't bid.
yeah i saw this auction too late, really frustrating as almost no black ug come into the market..
 
WatchGreek
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Dan S Dan S
I think that the auction price probably gives you a reasonably accurate view of fair market value, unless it was listed horribly in the auction, or there was something wrong with it that has now been repaired.

It's totally up to you how much you're willing to pay for it.
idk but tbh i think it was sold way under it's value being an all black ug. Just hard to justify spending almost 3k for a watch that was sold for 1k a couple weeks ago..

how much would u pay?
 
Dan S
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WatchGreek WatchGreek
idk but tbh i think it was sold way under it's value being an all black ug. Just hard to justify spending almost 3k for a watch that was sold for 1k a couple weeks ago..

how much would u pay?
You may be right, but auctions are usually a pretty reliable measure of current valuation. Of course, sometimes one flies under the radar. Keep in mind that all vintage watch prices are down, and if it's not a Rolex, it's down even more. UG was a great brand back in the day, but it's pretty obscure outside of chronographs. This looks like a nice enough watch, but not something I'd overpay to own. It's pretty small, and not a Polerouter. It's typical for a dealer to want to double their money, that's the dealer premium. If you want to buy at market value, you need to take the risk yourself to bid in auctions.

However, in your place, I would do my valuation research the way I always do, but finding as many recent sales prices as possible, adjusting for condition, and finding a reasonable consensus price. Of course, if the seller is stuck on his price, all the research in the world won't do you any good, and you will just need to make a personal decision about how much joy it will give you. Good luck with your research and purchase.

[Edited after reading the above posts indicating that there is no Polerouter connection.]
Edited:
 
Larry S
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It’s absolutely beautiful. Almost has the Ranchero vibe.
 
Mazoue
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Dan S Dan S
[Edited after reading the above posts indicating that there is no Polerouter connection.]
It is actually a Polerouter reference, albeit on this particular example it does not say Polerouter on the dial.

The posts above were flagging that the descriptions of this watch, used by the auction house and the seller, as a 'pre-Polerouter' were clearly wrong as this watch was produced several years after 1954, when the Polarouter was introduced.
 
Dan S
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Mazoue Mazoue
It is actually a Polerouter reference, albeit on this particular example it does not say Polerouter on the dial.

The posts above were flagging that the descriptions of this watch, used by the auction house and the seller, as a 'pre-Polerouter' were clearly wrong as this watch was produced several years after 1954, when the Polarouter was introduced.
Thanks, I see what you are saying now.

TBH, I'm really not a Polerouter fan, the ones I've owned have been underwhelming in person, perhaps because the wide bezel and dial design made a small watch feel even smaller. So I really stopped following them a long time ago. At that price, there are so many other watches I'd want to own.
 
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