Recent arrival - Longines Conquest Chronometre

seekingseaquest · Oct 7, 2020

I'm excited to share this Longines Conquest Chronometre I recently picked up. I'm smitten, however I'm also struggling to find much information on it..

I've seen five others (photos and info below). I've pressed the Longines archive pretty hard, but they can't seem to find any information about the chronometre status or the deluxe-style dial variant.

That said, of the seven I’ve seen to date, three of them (including mine) were delivered to Hattori in Japan on 8 July 1965, two were delivered to Hattori in Japan on 7 October 1965, and one is a franken watch (also delivered to Hattori in Japan, though). The last one I don’t have a movement photo so no archive info.

**Edited the above (and below) with additional examples**

Perhaps a special order?

Anyone have any info or recommendations?

Perhaps @Rumar89 @Tony C. @JohnSteed @gatorcpa @Andsan @dougiedude @Bill Sohne given this thread?

#1 - mine (bought from Stetz & Co) - serial # 12,850,821
Invoiced on 8 July 1965 to Hattori

#2 - from eBay (listed twice..) and previously posted on OF - serial # 12,851,126
Invoiced on 7 October 1965 to Hattori
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173846257884
https://www.ebay.com/itm/273877064621
https://omegaforums.net/threads/one...onquest-and-another-one-under-question.74678/

#3 - previously on eBay and previously posted on OF - serial # 13,461,924 (Note: Longines states this movement came in a 9044 ref, so the movement must have been transplanted)
Invoiced on 2 September 1966 to Hattori
https://omegaforums.net/threads/longines-291-chronometre.85413/

#4 - sold on Yahoo JP in July ‘21 - unknown serial #
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b564853764

#5 - sold on eBay (UK) in April ‘22 - serial # 12,849,746
Invoiced on 8 July 1965 to Hattori
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255492695219

#6 - sold on Yahoo JP in January '23 - serial # 12,850,826
Invoiced on 8 July 1965 to Hattori
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u1077346729

fefd8a0b-8615-463a-a139-60220e3c20ca-jpeg.1535548

#7 sold on Yahoo JP in Feb ‘24 - serial #12,850,928
Delivered on 7 Oct 1965 to Hattori
https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/1092179067
And owned by @WatchHeaven44

hotsauz · Oct 8, 2020

soysauz checking in, and following for any updates.

JohnSteed · Oct 8, 2020

Hi @seekingseaquest ... Great question, has come up before. Quite interesting the archive staff stumped.

Found couple threadshere on great OF - apologies if you already scoped these out:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/longines-291-chronometre.85413/#post-1101401

https://omegaforums.net/threads/one...another-one-under-question.74678/#post-946050

Let’s invite buddy @khmt2 to the party if he has some info that could help.

Tony C. · Oct 8, 2020

When you contacted Longines, they minimally should have been able to identify to what country it was originally delivered. What did they say?

Tony C. · Oct 8, 2020

The first two links to other examples are of the same watch, which, among other things, doesn't bolster the likelihood of authenticity.

guaranteed.rohu · Oct 8, 2020

congrats - stunner! these are super undervalued. hopefully it's correct!

seekingseaquest · Oct 8, 2020

Tony C.
When you contacted Longines, they minimally should have been able to identify to what country it was originally delivered. What did they say?

I should have been more clear. Longines was able to provide all of the usual information, just nothing “special” regarding the Chronometre or the dial style. This is how I got this info:

seekingseaquest
All three I've seen are 9024 references with a 291 caliber movement and all were delivered to "Hattori" in Japan between July 1965 and September 1966 according to Longines.

Dan S · Oct 8, 2020

Not that this is a smoking gun necessarily, but I'm wondering if you can identify any movement modifications, such as a fine regulator adjustment, or overcoil hairspring.

Tony C. · Oct 8, 2020

seekingseaquest
I should have been more clear. Longines was able to provide all of the usual information, just nothing “special” regarding the Chronometre or the dial style.

Well, given how good Longines' records are, it would be surprising if a certified Chronometer had not been recorded as such. Anything is possible, of course, but the lack of such a notation obviously doesn't inspire confidence.

Do you happen to have a photo of the other half of the movement?

seekingseaquest · Oct 8, 2020

Tony C.
Do you happen to have a photo of the other half of the movement?

Here you go:

seekingseaquest · Oct 8, 2020

Dan S
Not that this is a smoking gun necessarily, but I'm wondering if you can identify any movement modifications, such as a fine regulator adjustment, or overcoil hairspring.

Anything interesting above?

Tony C.
Well, given how good Longines' records are, it would be surprising if a certified Chronometer had not been recorded as such. Anything is possible, of course, but the lack of such a notation obviously doesn't inspire confidence.

Definitely not ideal. I was talking with another Longines collector not active on OF and he mentioned he had a similar situation with his 345 caliber Flagship from the same era. The heritage department couldn’t find any info but when he visited the heritage watchmakers workshop they were able to find a note for local chronometer testing in St Imier that identified his. Maybe a trip to Switzerland is in order.

Tony C. · Oct 8, 2020

Thanks! I can see nothing, with the exception of what Dan noted (i.e. the normal regulator), to suggest that it might not have been a chronometer.

I'm going to say that it is likely genuine, and, while counter-intuitive, that Longines' records may not have been quite as complete, or well organized, during the sunset of the Golden Era of Swiss watchmaking.

Dan S · Oct 8, 2020

Yeah, I was hoping to see a fine regulator adjustment, since that would have pretty much been a smoking gun. But the absence of it doesn't tell us much.

JohnSteed · Oct 8, 2020

Congrats on the pickup @seekingseaquest ... the archival limitation notwithstanding

Rumar89 · Oct 8, 2020

Beautiful example! These automatics are a little later than the examples that I typically focus on. With that said, I have seen several of these and I find it highly unlikely that they would be faked. That each example was invoiced to the same place, at roughly the same time, also lends credence imho that they are original.

Rumar89 · Oct 8, 2020

It’s also worth noting that the Longines archive is wonky regarding the reference number for the gold versions of these watches. So it may well be an archive issue.

Sam11 · Oct 9, 2020

Nice pick up! I saw one a few years ago but didn't bid on it at the end because Longines couldn't confirm the chronometer info about it so it didn't inspire confidence for me.

gatorcpa · Oct 9, 2020

Dan S
Yeah, I was hoping to see a fine regulator adjustment, since that would have pretty much been a smoking gun. But the absence of it doesn't tell us much.

Did any Longines Chronometer come from the factory with a different regulation system than the non-chronometer version of the same watch?

I have an Ultra Chron Chronometer and the only difference is that the rotor is marked and has a gold plated ring. The remainder of the cal. 431 movement looks exactly the same as other cal. 431 movements.

Omega used a totally different caliber number for its chronometer grade movements back then. Not sure that Longines did the same, even though they may have upgraded some of the parts, depending on the particular caliber.

That might explain why the Longines Museum is having a hard time distinguishing the differences here.
gatorcpa

Dan S · Oct 9, 2020

gatorcpa
Did any Longines Chronometer come from the factory with a different regulation system than the non-chronometer version of the same watch?

I have an Ultra Chron Chronometer and the only difference is that the rotor is marked and has a gold plated ring. The remainder of the cal. 431 movement looks exactly the same as other cal. 431 movements.

Omega used a totally different caliber number for its chronometer grade movements back then. Not sure that Longines did the same, even though they may have upgraded some of the parts, depending on the particular caliber.

That might explain why the Longines Museum is having a hard time distinguishing the differences here.
gatorcpa

The 30L chronometer grade movements have a subtly different balance cock and overcoil hairspring compared to the standard 30L, but no fine regulator. These are tip-offs, but you really have to know what you are looking for.

Rumar89 · Oct 9, 2020

Dan S
The 30L chronometer grade movements have a subtly different balance cock and overcoil hairspring compared to the standard 30L, but no fine regulator.

Early 30L chronometer movements do. Later versions do not.