Pulsations Nina Question

t_swiss_t · Aug 1, 2018

Hi,

I have long been interested in buying a Nina Rindt with a pulsations bezel (which I know is no easy task). Bulling and Sons has one for sale now that I am interested in (link and pictures below). My major question/concern is about the reference number, which is listed as 885105/02. I thought I remember seeing that pulsations Rindt's had a separate reference number (03 I think) but I am not sure if I had that right. If so, would it speak to this example being a 'parts watch' ? Thanks in advance to the UG experts here, I am quite the novice on these. Best,

Andrew

https://www.bulangandsons.com/watches/universal-geneve-nina-rindt-reference-885105-02-w-505.html

ELV web · Aug 1, 2018

I don’t think the /01 /02 /03 has anything to do with the Bezel type. Rather /01 is the black dial evil Niña and /02 is the white Normal Niña.

Diabolik · Aug 1, 2018

No, it is not.

The pulsation bezel would have either been added as an option to an 01 or 02. If it came out of the factory with a pulsation bezel, the 885108 case was used (same reference that is used on the exotic).

I have never seen an 03 ...

t_swiss_t · Aug 1, 2018

Diabolik
No, it is not.

The pulsation bezel would have either been added as an option to an 01 or 02. If it came out of the factory with a pulsation bezel, the 885108 case was used (same reference that is used on the exotic).

I have never seen an 03 ...

Thanks and glad to hear that I have it wrong. Hence my reason for starting the thread!

billving · Aug 1, 2018

Diabolik
No, it is not.

The pulsation bezel would have either been added as an option to an 01 or 02. If it came out of the factory with a pulsation bezel, the 885108 case was used (same reference that is used on the exotic).

I have never seen an 03 ...

so this one is NOT the 885108 case, so the bezel was a later replacement?

bd-chrono · Aug 1, 2018

My Nina Rindt pulsation bezel is the same reference 885105/02
Also has the same original box as Bulang and Sons.

sdre · Aug 1, 2018

Any idea what's Bulang asking?

Edit: B&S replied me. Am I allowed to share the price?

Diabolik · Aug 2, 2018

bd-chrono
My Nina Rindt pulsation bezel is the same reference 885105/02
Also has the same original box as Bulang and Sons.

That bezel is in excellent condition ...

As mentioned, the 885105/01 and /02 references are found (very few) with the pulsations bezel. However, they are likely to have been modified by special order or request by a watchmaker or UG (service replacement).

That does not mean that they are made up or incorrect.

The non run of the mill types of the later compax (all dial variations of the exotic and any non standard configuration such as the medico), had a reference of 885108 (From what I have been able to determine. this was a generic reference used for non standard models). I am unsure why the non standard reference was not expanded so as to classify the variations (dials, bezels and so on) of what we call the exotic and medico (-01, -02 and so on) .

Note that the reference 885108 medico also has a second runner that does not have lume which makes a lot of sense as the would be very little point (bezel would not be visible in the dark).

There are very few known examples of the compax medico and even fewer of the tri compax medico ...

Florent · Aug 2, 2018

sdre
Any idea what's Bulang asking?

Edit: B&S replied me. Am I allowed to share the price?

Yes.

billving · Aug 2, 2018

33900 euro

t_swiss_t · Aug 5, 2018

@Diabolik thanks for your responses. The Bulang example also claims to have original papers that are signed with hand written text (not stamped). As I haven’t bought the watch I won’t post it in public but I’ve heard that blank UG papers can be bought and filled in easily and hence do not add value.

Should they be signed, stamped, or anything else to be correct?

Diabolik · Aug 6, 2018

Determining if box, guarantee and all of the various bits that make up the full set and all belong together, involves a little detective work. I would always start with the serial number and Any further information that can be gathered by what you have in the whole package.

Check serial number on watch and date code on bracelet. They should be very close. The Box is the type that was used in the mid sixties. Guarantee is a later 70s going on the logo. It could well be that a later guarantee booklet was used as it had been sitting around awaiting a buyer.

There is insufficient data to correctly asses the watch but from what I see, I would say that it is unlikely that the package you have belongs together as chronologically it does not fit very well.

In terms of value, I would only look at watch and bracelet and work on that. If there was documentary evidence such as a bill of sale, guarantee, manual box, and so on and they all fitted together chronologically, then value could well be a little more (10 to 15%) as it would be considered full set.

vujen · Aug 6, 2018

Nice watch.
Still deeply overpriced, IMO.

Mazoue · Jul 19, 2023

I think much of this was resolved and documented within the UG Ten book by Crosthwaite & Gavin but just for completeness.

Diabolik · Jul 25, 2023

Mazoue
I think much of this was resolved and documented within the UG Ten book by Crosthwaite & Gavin but just for completeness.

Not quite sure about that ...

Please expand on that. By 1973-74, there was very little left of UG and there was a logo change in 1968-1969 with the introduction of the Gerald Genta caliber 66 ultra thin and unisonic models. The lines and references above, were no longer available (apart for old stock).

Mazoue · Jul 25, 2023

In my opinion, the only Compax that left the factory with a pulsations bezel is the reference 885105/02. Anything else was amended at a later date, whether that was at point of sale in 1973 or years later we'll never know.

The 885103/01 and /02 are in the 1969 catalogue but not the 885105/02, suggesting that the pulsations bezel variations came later, which seems consistent with the reference number being slightly higher (generally true but not always).

All three of the above references remained in the catalogues right up to and including 1976-1977. Whether these were still being produced or were old stock seems irrelevant, they were for sale.

The 885108 referred to in the chain above is a completely different watch and did not have a pulsations bezel.

I think this all seems fairly clear. Happy to consider further if you disagree.

Diabolik · Jul 25, 2023

Mazoue
In my opinion, the only Compax that left the factory with a pulsations bezel is the reference 885105/02. Anything else was amended at a later date, whether that was at point of sale in 1973 or years later we'll never know.

The 885103/01 and /02 are in the 1969 catalogue but not the 885105/02, suggesting that the pulsations bezel variations came later, which seems consistent with the reference number being slightly higher (generally true but not always).

All three of the above references remained in the catalogues right up to and including 1976-1977. Whether these were still being produced or were old stock seems irrelevant, they were for sale.

The 885108 referred to in the chain above is a completely different watch and did not have a pulsations bezel.

I think this all seems fairly clear. Happy to consider further if you disagree.

Diabolik · Jul 25, 2023

Please provide evidence. Reference and serial number ...

Mazoue · Jul 25, 2023

Diabolik
Please provide evidence. Reference and serial number ...

Evidence of what?

What aspect of the above do you not agree with?

Diabolik · Jul 25, 2023

you said:

The 885103/01 and /02 are in the 1969 catalogue but not the 885105/02, "suggesting that the pulsations bezel variations came later" which seems consistent with the reference number being slightly higher (generally true but not always)

Provide reference and serial to backup what you stated.

All three of the above "references remained in the catalogues right up to and including 1976-1977" Whether these were still being produced or were old stock seems irrelevant, they were for sale.

provide evidence of examples that have serials dating to 76-77 to back up your claim.

The "885108 referred to in the chain above is a completely different watch" and did not have a pulsations bezel

The 885108 is the exotic, a compax variation. Exotics came with three different bezel/dial however maintained the same reference.