Proof of service - take nothing less

Archer
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So it's been said here by many before, but it's worth repeating - if a watch you plan on buying is said to be "recently serviced" you should always ask for proof. That means a receipt from a known to be good service provider, that can be tied to the watch in question. If the seller isn't able to provide that, then my advice would be to count on doing a service when the watch arrives when considering what to pay, and if that service isn't required, consider it a bonus.

I recently received a relatively modern Seamaster for service, that the seller had told my customer had been serviced "3 days before being put up for sale", but the seller didn't provide any proof, so the buyer sent the watch to me when it arrived for a once over.

I fully wound it and the balance amplitude in a horizontal position was just 240 degrees, so either it wasn't serviced, or wasn't serviced properly.

A visual inspection confirmed that the jewels were all pretty much dry:







And after cleaning, it's pretty clear that some wear has happened - this is the seconds wheel upper pivot:



And here is the reversing wheel pivot:



These were not the only parts needed, but given that this is a modern movement and these parts aren't expensive, this will only add around $130 to the service, so not a huge issue. For vintage watches I've paid more than that for one discontinued wheel, so there you need to be more careful to avoid a large financial cost.

Cheers, Al
 
Deafboy
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Thanks for the post.
Just how "modern" is the Seamaster? 20 years? 40 years old? That's nasty wear!
 
Archer
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Deafboy Deafboy
Thanks for the post.
Just how "modern" is the Seamaster? 20 years? 40 years old? That's nasty wear!

80 million serial number...Cal. 1120 SMP...
 
Dan S
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Unfortunately, even an absolute proof of service from a well-known repair shop isn't even much of a guarantee. I once purchased a watch from someone who had paid for a recent service at what is probably the most well-known repair shop in NYC. They provided very elaborate documentation, including a warranty and a little plastic card with their logo, a photo of the watch, and its serial number. I found that the manual winding was quite stiff, so I took it to my watchmaker, and he confirmed that the movement was pretty clean, but that the lubrication was totally inadequate in his opinion.

Honestly, I prefer to buy an unserviced watch and just take care of it myself.
 
Archer
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Dan S Dan S
Unfortunately, even an absolute proof of service from a well-known repair shop isn't even much of a guarantee.

Only guarantees in life are death and taxes...
 
amcclell
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I started my career as a mechanic and spent the last 25 years in OEM technical training with 2 automotive manufacturers and 2 community colleges. The quality of automotive service from fully-trained, licensed technicians varies widely and there is no consistency across the board between the quality of repair work in comparison to the price paid, or with new car dealers vs independent shops. My experience with buying watches is not much different than buying a used car. Unless the service was done by someone that I knew and trusted, I take it with a grain of salt and consider it a bonus if the work was actually done to decent standards. I price everything assuming it needs a service. Unfortunately, an invoice for service confirms that a customer paid good money for repair work to be done but that doesn't mean that it was done well, or that short cuts weren't taken.
 
JwRosenthal
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amcclell amcclell
I started my career as a mechanic and spent the last 25 years in OEM technical training with 2 automotive manufacturers and 2 community colleges. The quality of automotive service from fully-trained, licensed technicians varies widely and there is no consistency across the board between the quality of repair work in comparison to the price paid, or with new car dealers vs independent shops. My experience with buying watches is not much different than buying a used car. Unless the service was done by someone that I knew and trusted, I take it with a grain of salt and consider it a bonus if the work was actually done to decent standards. I price everything assuming it needs a service. Unfortunately, an invoice for service confirms that a customer paid good money for repair work to be done but that doesn't mean that it was done well, or that short cuts weren't taken.
I have only bought used cars in my life and the first thing I do is take it to my mechanic of 20 years- who I trust implicitly. To create a baseline of service, I have every fluid and filter changed, full inspections etc- it’s surprising what he finds despite full service records accompanying a car.
I do the same with watches.
 
duc
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Archer Archer
Only guarantees in life are death and taxes...
I don't think so, with respect to this topic. I had a watch serviced by a tip top watchmaker, who I guarantee would not screw over a customer. I would absolutely count on service from Archer!
 
marco
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
I have only bought used cars in my life and the first thing I do is take it to my mechanic of 20 years- who I trust implicitly. To create a baseline of service, I have every fluid and filter changed, full inspections etc- it’s surprising what he finds despite full service records accompanying a car.
I do the same with watches.
I recently had my partners car serviced by my very good mechanic.. This Mazda had been religiously serviced by the Mazda dealer who sold the car. My mechanic asked me who has ben servicing this car, I asked why. His answere was it had the original fuel filter on it which was now 8years old !
My first job in Australia was as a quick service mechanic for the main Ford dealership in Sydney. Christmas Eve 1968, myself and another mechanic serviced 30 new cars !! You can imagine how much attention they got !
Edited:
 
Twocats
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Might be a silly question but..... when my Speedy came back from service I received a little bag with the old hands and a few other bits and pieces in it (I requested no polishing and to retain the original pushers and crown if the were good enough).

Do all watches not come back with at least a few bits in a bag post service ?
 
MtV
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Not necessarily - or people could not see the importance of keeping those old parts. To use the car analogy, who’d keep an exchanges spark plug. I’d like to emphasize that this is not my personal view, but I’ve bought watches which came with service receipts and asking the seller about the old parts the above was basically their answer.

Also, an exception to the rule for me is the trust I might have in a very few people. I’d feel very weird asking @Archer for a service bill of a watch I was buying from him for example. 😁
 
amcclell
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MtV MtV
Not necessarily - or people could not see the importance of keeping those old parts. To use the car analogy, who’d keep an exchanges spark plug. I’d like to emphasize that this is not my personal view, but I’ve bought watches which came with service receipts and asking the seller about the old parts the above was basically their answer.
Your argument makes perfect sense but I would hazard a guess that there are more than a few members here that have every spark plug, brake pad, rotor and tie rod end that's been lovingly replaced on their prized, gas-powered carriage.
 
Archer
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Twocats Twocats
Might be a silly question but..... when my Speedy came back from service I received a little bag with the old hands and a few other bits and pieces in it (I requested no polishing and to retain the original pushers and crown if the were good enough).

Do all watches not come back with at least a few bits in a bag post service ?

The short answer is, yes they should. When I replace parts on a watch, the parts that I remove are not my property, they are the property of the watch owner, so they are returned to the owner. Keeping them IMO is theft, and yes that may seem like an extreme way of looking at it, but for those who collect vintage, and know what an original Speedmaster crown may go for for example, it is not always a trivial amount of money.

What the owner decides to do with them once they get them back is up to them, but it's not my place to make decisions on their behalf.

The only times parts are not returned is if:

1 - the owner specifically says they don't want them back, which is rare.
2 - the part has to be sent to the company who supplies them on an exchange basis - for Omega this is pretty rare.

Cheers, Al
 
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