Polerouter Sub, is it really as described?

citizenrich
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Looks correct on the outside but im sure there are some intertube sleuthers ready to pounce on the length of the hours hand being wrong or something. And, with the understanding that this all has as much to do with diver watch whoring as much as UG, I still feel compelled to ask: Why??

5g's for that? Really?? I get the whole compax craze because they were good chronos but this is not a good diver. My apologies to any enthusiasts whom I may have offended. maybe you could make me feel better by explaining...Why??


bulova made a better period diver which can be had for a buck three eighty in NOS condition.
 
LouS
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Case looks good, as do hands and rotating bezel. The dial is a question mark as it does not have "Polerouter Sub" nor the characteristic lume plots on the edge of the hour markers - rather, the whole marker is lumed in, like the fakes. I think I recall a co-branded Tiffany Polerouter Sub at Antiquorum that was missing the model designation.

This one is a bit ambiguous.
 
Tony C.
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No way that the marker lume is original. Probably a total redial.
 
seamonster
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Respectable Members

To all those who have responded, I appreciate.

I bring this listing to the attention of fellow respectable members because what the seller claims is indeed arrogant and very disturbing. Perhaps, he is either ignorant or trying to mislead.

'For those who collect Divers, in special Super Compressor cases, knows this is one of the most rare. I´ve been following the UG Polerouter Sub in auctions for the last 5 years, most of them were fake ones, terrible cases and fakes dials. This is 100% original, even the two crowns (notice they are different each other). The dial has the dots yet (see picts). The case kept the super compressor "arrow" signal to open. The hands are original as well. I can´t say the case has never been polished, but it is in great shape'

Though is not easy to get a vintage diver watch in virtually 'perfect' condition, I reckon the seller's watch is far from what he claims it to be.

Thank-you.
 
J
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Are we saying that this watch is correct even though it does not have Polerouter Sub on the Dial?
 
styggpyggeno1
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I believe LouS: s answer is spot on and therefore I quote it. "The dial is a question mark as it does not have "Polerouter Sub" nor the characteristic lume plots on the edge of the hour markers - rather, the whole marker is lumed in, like the fakes. I think I recall a co-branded Tiffany Polerouter Sub at Antiquorum that was missing the model designation."

It is a "question mark". I would be very cautious of shouting fake over everything out of the norm or just because you have not seen it before. In this case it has to be an overall judgement (or... as always). As LouS writes - he recalls a watch missing the model designation. That watch might not have been OK either - but it might.

One off/limited run dials do exist. Have a look at the dial in my link in a previous post above. All my experience and all my gut feeling about it says it is a genuine UGP-Sub one off dial/prototype/limited production. The way it came to me, how it is manufactured, patina, etc. I might convince some other collectors about its provenance and get it recognized as genuine. But it will always, by some, be considered as a potential fake. Again it comes down to overall judgement. Would it be a good idea to fake a dial that no one recognize or would it be a better idea to fake a dial that everyone identifies as the norm? Is there money or fame to be gained? Etc.

My gut feeling/overall judgement about the dial in the auction is that it could be OK. But as I wrote in my earlier post - " I would have expected" another dial. I for one, would not overly confidently say it is fake or that it is correct. It might be either and it should show in the price. When you are not sure - pay less or if you sit on info of it being rare and genuine pay more.

regards
JE
 
LouS
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styggpyggeno1 styggpyggeno1
I believe LouS: s answer is spot on and therefore I quote it. "The dial is a question mark as it does not have "Polerouter Sub" nor the characteristic lume plots on the edge of the hour markers - rather, the whole marker is lumed in, like the fakes. I think I recall a co-branded Tiffany Polerouter Sub at Antiquorum that was missing the model designation."

It is a "question mark". I would be very cautious of shouting fake over everything out of the norm or just because you have not seen it before. In this case it has to be an overall judgement (or... as always). As LouS writes - he recalls a watch missing the model designation. That watch might not have been OK either - but it might.

One off/limited run dials do exist. Have a look at the dial in my link in a previous post above. All my experience and all my gut feeling about it says it is a genuine UGP-Sub one off dial/prototype/limited production. The way it came to me, how it is manufactured, patina, etc. I might convince some other collectors about its provenance and get it recognized as genuine. But it will always, by some, be considered as a potential fake. Again it comes down to overall judgement. Would it be a good idea to fake a dial that no one recognize or would it be a better idea to fake a dial that everyone identifies as the norm? Is there money or fame to be gained? Etc.

My gut feeling/overall judgement about the dial in the auction is that it could be OK. But as I wrote in my earlier post - " I would have expected" another dial. I for one, would not overly confidently say it is fake or that it is correct. It might be either and it should show in the price. When you are not sure - pay less or if you sit on info of it being rare and genuine pay more.

regards
JE


Rather a good post, Johan. An example of the nuance acquired over time in collecting watches.

The case of this watch is correct however, and that is reflected in the final sales price of USD4000.
 
J
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so what we are really saying is that the watch is correct but the dial may be re-done!
 
styggpyggeno1
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J jasonking1
so what we are really saying is that the watch is correct but the dial may be re-done!

"We" - I cannot say but I - in short mean that the dial may be fake, redone, be partially redone (lume) or not at all - i e original. That was the whole point of my post. Whithout having the complete watch in my hand for f2f inspection I would not say "correct" about anything. I, however believe the case to be OK/what is expected based on the pictures.

Who are you and why are you asking?
regards
JE
 
J
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Hi I am looking at buying one of these watches and everywhere I look I seem to jump a mile!
 
styggpyggeno1
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I am not staff here but wellcome from me. I would recommend you to write an introduction of yourself and post it in the introductions thread. You will benefit from it in the long run. Specially when asking questions as a new member. I am not English speaking originally and your "jump a mile" expression is lost on me. Do not know what it means. I do however know the difficulties in obtaining a UGP Sub - if that is what you mean?

Been looking for quite a while. My dream find is an early version (the kind of case respectable member Seamonster is showing above) with really, really bad - or missing - dial and bezel. It would therefore be better priced and then I had use for my NOS dial and bezel = saving a watch from disgrace.
regards
JE
 
L
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LouS LouS
Case looks good, as do hands and rotating bezel. The dial is a question mark as it does not have "Polerouter Sub" nor the characteristic lume plots on the edge of the hour markers - rather, the whole marker is lumed in, like the fakes. I think I recall a co-branded Tiffany Polerouter Sub at Antiquorum that was missing the model designation.

This one is a bit ambiguous.
Some of the original ads show the dial without "Polerouter Sub" printed but they call it "Polerouter Sub".

Here's an ad from 1961--The same year the Sub debuted IIRC.

I am personally always wary of ANY sub (first version of course) that is anything but a Cal 215 period. Lots of made up 218's and even 1-69's or models that denoted a date function are inserted in these made up watches.

Additionally most of these made up fakes lately seem to have the real deep pitting where rust was removed from the cheap steel used.

I think the OP's example is perfectly fine.
Polerouter Sub Ad 1961.jpg
 
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