Original dial on a Vacheron Constantin ?

DTMwatch
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I’m looking for a vintage gold watch but have uncovered a lot of redials and frankenwatches. This VC interests me but I haven’t seen any others of similar style with aged lume. That has me wondering about the authenticity of the dial. Any assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

upload_2022-1-1_12-33-57.jpeg
 
Tony C.
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Probably not original, but a larger, high-quality image would be required in order to arrive at a confident conclusion.

I cannot remember having seen hands of that style on a V&C, and you are correct that the lume on the dial is also suspicious.
 
DTMwatch
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I’ve since found a photo of another VC from the 1950s, which makes me think the above may be original. However, I haven’t had any success copying it to post here.
 
MikiJ
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Why not reach out for Tick Talk, Dean, the Vacheron Mod on WatchProsite.
 
Tony C.
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The signature may be correct, but I remain uneasy about the originality of the dial and hands.
 
sleepyastronaut
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Searching for "P1008/bs" I found this watch at https://www.swisswatchexpo.com/watc...ow-gold-silver-dial-vintage-mens-watch-35935/

Barrel bridge marked P1008/bs and "Adjusted to temperatures"; case back with initial caps.

vacheron-constantin-35-mm-18k-yellow-gold-silver-dial-vintage-mens-watch-35935_6b067_md.jpg vacheron-constantin-35-mm-18k-yellow-gold-silver-dial-vintage-mens-watch-35935_b53e3_md.jpg vacheron-constantin-35-mm-18k-yellow-gold-silver-dial-vintage-mens-watch-35935_6389d_md.jpg


I found this at http://ninanet.net/watches/others12/Mediums/mvccr.html

Barrel bridge marked P1008/bs and "Adjusted to heat cold isochronism and five (5) positions"; case back with all caps.

mvccrf01.jpg mvccrs01.jpg mvccrd01.jpg mvccrb01.jpg mvccrc01.jpg mvccrm01.jpg



In comparison, despite the different dial hardware, it seems @DTMwatch your watch is at best an unattractive redial.

Why the difference in engraving on the barrel bridge? The first one looks dull in comparison, which could be the lighting, or it could be a dull finish.
 
Tony C.
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sleepyastronaut sleepyastronaut
Searching for "P1008/bs" I found this...

That's not a fair comparison, as there were different dial variations.

Also, signatures varied to some degree, depending on the date of manufacture.
 
Dan S
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I think the lume has been added to the dial after the fact. You can even see indentations in the lume from the underlying metal markers. Loos quite sloppy. As Tony noted, this also suggests that the hands are not original.

As an aside, the case looks quite soft. Not really an example worth spending time on IMO.
 
DTMwatch
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I haven’t purchased the watch, due to my concerns about the dial. I’m going to stay away from this VC.

Having the benefit of this forum is tremendous. Thank you all for your assistance. Happy New Year, everyone.
 
sleepyastronaut
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Tony C. Tony C.
there were different dial variations.

Also, signatures varied to some degree, depending on the date of manufacture.

So you're saying, both the dial with the perfectly executed dial signature, with a consummate triangle for an accent grave in the word Genève, and this hot mess, where the lopsided 'andpersand' is off-center between Vacheron & Constantin, and they forgot the accent in "Geneve," both these dials are legit?

mvccrd01-01.jpeg vacheron-constantin-35-mm-18k-yellow-gold-silver-dial-vintage-mens-watch-35935_6b067_md-01.jpeg
 
Tony C.
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sleepyastronaut sleepyastronaut
So you're saying, both the dial with the perfectly executed dial signature, with a consummate triangle for an accent grave in the word Genève, and this hot mess, where the lopsided 'andpersand' is off-center between Vacheron & Constantin, and they forgot the accent in "Geneve," both these dials are legit?

lol! That is quite a tortured reading of what I wrote, to put it kindly.

I made it clear that I am skeptical of the dial, so never suggested that it was "legit".

As to the rest of your breathless claims, well, I'd say that you apparently do not have a great deal of experience with vintage V&C. The accent above the E was not always employed, nor were the signatures of uniform quality.
Edited:
 
sleepyastronaut
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Tony C. Tony C.
lol! That is quite a tortured reading of what I wrote, to put it kindly.

I made it clear that I am skeptical of the dial, so never suggested that it was "legit".

As to the rest of your breathless claims, well, I'd say that you apparently do not have a great deal of experience with vintage V&C. The accent above the E was not always employed, nor were the signatures of uniform quality.

Correct, I do not have a great deal of experience with vintage VC, however, I've seen enough of the OP's watch to see that it's junk. I don't have enough experience with vintage VC to say it's likely counterfeit, so I won't. I do feel sorry for the poor shlub who ends up buying it.
 
Tony C.
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We're discussing the dial signature only, and watch re-dials would never be considered "counterfeits", unless the express purpose was to defraud.

Your two specific observations that led you to your dubiously confident conclusion that the printing is not original were the lack of an accent, and the asymmetric spaces on either side of the ampersand. I have already mentioned that the first is flat-out wrong, as there are many examples of original V&C dials which lack them. The second is not as clear as you would have readers believe, either. Here are some examples of original dials which underscore the point(s).

In the future, it would benefit both you to put some time into researching a specific topic before arriving at such hard and fast conclusions.

VCDE2.png

VCDE3.png

VCDE4.png

VCDE5.png

VCDE6.png

VCDE7.png

VCDE8.png
Edited:
 
sleepyastronaut
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Tony C. Tony C.
We're discussing the dial signature only, and watch re-dials would never be considered "counterfeits", unless the express purpose was to defraud.

Depends on who you ask; I'm sure each manufacturer has his own definition of what constitutes a counterfeit of his product.

Tony C. Tony C.
Your two specific observations that led you to your dubiously confident conclusion that the printing is not original were the lack of an accent, and the asymmetric spaces on either side of the ampersand.

Those are two attributes I called out. The accent isn't always present on original dials, and was a poor point of reference.

Tony C. Tony C.
I have already mentioned that the first is flat-out wrong, as there are many examples of original V&C dials which lack them. The second is not as clear as you would have readers believe, either. Here are some examples of original dials which underscore the point(s).

In the future, it would benefit both you to put some time into researching a specific topic before arriving at such hard and fast conclusions.
VCDE5.png
VCDE7.png
VCDE8.png

I'm all for it.

This one is maybe not the best example to underscore your point about the "Champlevé" signatures:


VCDE6.png

These two might be better examples instead:

chempleve.jpg

upload_2020-7-31_16-10-4-jpeg.1036650
 
Tony C.
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sleepyastronaut sleepyastronaut
This one is maybe not the best example to underscore your point about the "Champlevé" signatures

I wasn't making a point specifically about champlevé dials, and the last one that you posted does not appear to be one. FYI the next to last was a watch that I owned, and I took that photo.
 
sleepyastronaut
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Tony C. Tony C.
FYI the next to last was a watch that I owned, and I took that photo.

I assumed as much, as I found it in a post of yours.
 
Bernhard J
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I own quite a number of V&C wristwatches, from about 1915 to about 1965, wherein I assume (I am quite sure, actually) that none has a repainted dial or is a redial. Some have the accent on the "E" in "GENEVE", some not, about 50:50. I am quite sure that this detail (missing accent, which is optional on capital letters) is no evidence for anything.

Cheers, Bernhard
Edited:
 
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