need help authenticating 1950s military watch

eustace · Jan 20, 2014

Hi all, i stumbled across this very nice piece. The dealer claims its a circa 1950's Ref. 20503.

I wonder if the experts here could weigh in on its authenticity and what you may think it's worth. Comments very much appreciated.

Full description is:
Universal Geneve stainless steel military wristwatch, circa 1950s, Ref. 20503, 33 x 42mm case with screw down back with original matte silvered dial with luminous indexes and pencil hands. 17-jewel manual-wind movement with sweep seconds. Pleasing post-WWII military-inspired design. Shown on NATO style, or your choice of sporty strap.

woodwkr2 · Jan 22, 2014

Looks authentic to me. Case appears to have received an overzealous polishing, and of course you haven't included movement or caseback pictures. The crown is likely a replacement, though this is not a big deal, and the originals were unsigned anyways.

woodwkr2 · Jan 23, 2014

Happened to run across the dealer where this piece is offered for sale. Check that it comes with a recent service, but for the asking price, I'd pull the trigger. If you're patient, you may find one one the Bay for a better price, but you're unlikely to find one in better condition, and throw in a service and you're talking similar money.

For my preferences, I'd throw a vintage pigskin strap on her rather than that ugly green Nato.

(Shameless plug: I've got quite a stash of NOS pigskins that would fit, PM if you want one.)

eustace · Jan 23, 2014

Thanks for the input! I have a picture of the movement attached here. Thoughts appreciated. Can you send me a photo of one of those NOS pigskins?

Thanks again.

Tony C. · Jan 23, 2014

Looks like an unusually clean and nice example all around. I'd be careful about one thing: does the represented diameter include, or exclude the crown?

Cheers,

Tony C.

eustace · Jan 23, 2014

Hi Tony,

Good question about the diameter -- I need to ask the dealer.

Also, the dealer states this is a 17 jewel manual-wind movement. Curiously, the movement doesn't have any indication of that -- I've seen several caliber 267's - some have engraved 17-jewel, 15-jewel, and some without any markings at all. This has no markings. This one also doesn't have the word "Swiss". Any thoughts?

Tony C. · Jan 23, 2014

eustace
Hi Tony,

Good question about the diameter -- I need to ask the dealer.

Also, the dealer states this is a 17 jewel manual-wind movement. Curiously, the movement doesn't have any indication of that -- I've seen several caliber 267's - some have engraved 17-jewel, 15-jewel, and some without any markings at all. This has no markings. This one also doesn't have the word "Swiss". Any thoughts?

In cases such as this one, my advice is to rely on Occam's Razor. The condition of the movement, while very clean, doesn't seem to be inconsistent with that of the rest of the watch. Also, it would hardly be worthwhile to piece together a marriage of a relatively inexpensive watch like this, unless the seller was in a third-world country. Assuming that the case back is in similarly good condition, I'd assume that it is a very well-preserved, original example.

Also, the cal. 267 was a UG workhorse caliber, and came in many different variations, including what was or was not etched into the plates. That movement is certainly correct for the type of watch, in any case.

eustace · Feb 3, 2014

Thanks for the advice Tony C. I ended up purchasing it and am quite fond of it!

LouS · Feb 4, 2014

eustace
Thanks for the advice Tony C. I ended up purchasing it and am quite fond of it!

OK, Eustace, that isn't going to fly. We'll need pictures. We give you advice, you give us the pics when you have the watch. That's the quid pro quo around here.

ulackfocus · Feb 4, 2014

LouS
OK, Eustace, that isn't going to fly. We'll need pictures. We give you advice, you give us the pics when you have the watch. That's the quid pro quo around here.

Lou beat me to it.

eustace · Feb 5, 2014

Gentlemen, I am more than happy to oblige.

JimInOz · Feb 5, 2014

Looks much better on the wrist 👍

BTW, 5 posts, you'd better get an avatar chopchop, I'd hate to think what the mods would assign to your username 😁

eustace · Feb 5, 2014

some more photos

LouS · Feb 5, 2014

Now you're talkin'!

That might be the cleanest version of that watch that I've ever seen. That case looks a lot like a Zenith Pilot case, and its the same size. What's on the back?

ulackfocus · Feb 5, 2014

JimInOz
BTW, 5 posts, you'd better get an avatar chopchop, I'd hate to think what the mods would assign to your username 😁

Now you know. 😜

Tony C. · Feb 5, 2014

ExcellentI Congratulations on the purchase, and I hope that you enjoy it for years to come.

TC

eustace · Feb 10, 2014

LouS
Now you're talkin'!

That might be the cleanest version of that watch that I've ever seen. That case looks a lot like a Zenith Pilot case, and its the same size. What's on the back?

LouS - it does seem to bear a striking resemblance. The caseback:

LouS · Feb 10, 2014

interesting - 6-notch screwback. I'd wager it's the same casemaker. OK, this one's on my list.

woodwkr2 · Mar 10, 2014

The Universal is for sale again... did you return it?! <Thinking seriously about buying it for myself.>

eustace · Mar 10, 2014

I think that's an error. I most def still have it!