Most Underrated High-End Brand - Girard Perregaux?

guaranteed.rohu · Oct 8, 2018

Wondering if there are any Girard Perregaux owners out there.

Investigating more into the brand, it is essentially of the same pedigree as Vacheron or AP (maybe even more so because GP made movements in house that were used by many other brands over the years, similar to JLC in this respect),

These days they make some ridiculous high end grand complications, that win many prizes and push the boundaries of watchmaking...

Yet they are significantly undervalued. Maybe arguably the movement finishing is a little bit below Vacheron/Lange/Patek nowadays, but the overall product is very very compelling.

Some examples below of the 1966 line which I love the aesthetics of. The enamel dial small seconds in the white gold is stunning!

Any GP owners, or people considering buying a GP , with thoughts on this?

Dan S · Oct 8, 2018

My experience is only with GP vintage watches, and I honestly can't place them amongst the high-end brands like those you mention. They made good watches, in the same general category as Zenith, Longines, IWC, and Omega, speaking very broadly. These brands also produced truly excellent in-house movements. I don't think it's relevant whether they supplied ebauches to other companies.

I do understand that they are trying to position themselves as a high-end brand these days. That's outside my wheelhouse, but it's obviously a heavy lift in terms of marketing. "Undervalued" is a truly loaded term in the luxury watch world.

EdtheAussie · Oct 9, 2018

This is my only GP

I like their modern watches but think they lose a lot of resale, but if you like it buy it 😀

They have some crackin vintage pieces, and nice chronos etc...

Larry S · Oct 9, 2018

I was admiring their 1945 line in a Paris AD years ago. I had never heard of them but I was impressed. That is until I went to Chrono 24 and saw the depreciation. I’d say they are a brand without a clear compass. That hurts resale. In my case I was able to make a deal on a RG JLC Master Moon (for which I was hunting) for less than a time only GP.

Archer · Oct 9, 2018

The vintage G-P's are certainly not "high end", and yes they are trying to position themselves as more high end now.

I do think the quality of the current watches is very good (much better than the vintage in pure technical terms) and with the proper marketing they could improve their perception a great deal. A company that is similar with vintage and has done much better as a modern "higher end" company would be Blancpain. From a movement perspective the vintage watches are certainly nothing special (downright pedestrian in fact), and the modern watches far surpass the vintage in that regard, but they had a marketing genius at the helm for many years and that made a difference.

BTW the near constant focus on "resale value" on various forums these days is a bit disheartening to me. Certainly OF is a place I'm less likely to see this kind of thing, but really for me it's a pretty low consideration on my list of priorities.

Cheers, Al

Tony C. · Oct 9, 2018

Archer
The vintage G-P's are certainly not "high end", and yes they are trying to position themselves as more high end now.

From a movement perspective the vintage watches are certainly nothing special (downright pedestrian in fact), and the modern watches far surpass the vintage in that regard, but they had a marketing genius at the helm for many years and that made a difference.

Cheers, Al

While I certainly agree that they were not a high-end company, Al, and would of course defer to your experience and knowledge of the nuances of their movements, I will lodge a small dissent in that their production High-Frequency chronometers performed extremely well in the Observatory trials.

No Côtes de Genève finishing, etc., but from a performance standpoint they were very impressive. I have also found the several that I have owned to have been typically quite accurate even before servicing.

Archer · Oct 9, 2018

Tony C.
I will lodge a small dissent in that their production High-Frequency chronometers performed extremely well in the Observatory trials.

I don't pretend to define what "high end" means to people - hence my use of quotes for that phrase. But the OP is comparing these to VC and AP - in that context the vintage movements were certainly not "high end" although they may have been accurate. If accuracy is the test for you, that's fine, but then a bog standard ETA 7750 would be "high end" and most people would not make that association.

Cheers, Al

Larry S · Oct 9, 2018

Concerning resale ... while I was in negotiation for the JLC over several days, I was also interested in GP. Took away a bunch of nice sales materials. The resale was a data poin in my consideration set, but a concerning one on a $20K+ watch.

Archer · Oct 9, 2018

I tend to buy watches and keep them for the most part, so if the watch takes a hit on resale (most do) then it really makes little difference to me.

Having said that, a large discrepancy between retail and street price may cause me to consider buying the watch second hand as a matter of getting value for my money, but that difference on it's own is not the big concern.

I guess the way I look at it if resale is a really primary consideration for people (not saying it is for anyone in particular) it leads you down a path of collecting only a very limited number of brands and watches. For me this would mean missing out on some outstanding watches, and I wouldn't own most of what I own right now.

So while I certainly don't want to overpay for something, what it would sell for is not a huge issue - hope that makes sense the way I'm trying to get it across...

Cheers, Al

rcs914 · Oct 9, 2018

With modern watches I think one of the most underrated brands is probably Glashutte Original - and it's one that suffers a bit in resale value. But I personally would rather have a Panomatic Lunar than a Lange 1.

sjg22 · Oct 9, 2018

JLC and GP both make lovely, highly covetable watches - however, as @Larry S mentioned, they’ve both got very steep depreciation curves and that seems to be the thing that keeps them out of the upper echelon discussion.

I was given a budget to choose a gift for myself once and I chose a JLC - which is telling two ways... 1) JLC seemed to me to provide the best watchmaking for the money; and, 2) I didn’t want to use my own money to buy one! I think the same rationale applies to GP.

Jerseyhammer · Oct 9, 2018

IMO they are an under rated watch .You can pick up a good clean one for under £400 in the UK.

Larry S · Oct 9, 2018

sjg22
JLC and GP both make lovely, highly covetable watches - however, as @Larry S mentioned, they’ve both got very steep depreciation curves and that seems to be the thing that keeps them out of the upper echelon discussion.

I was given a budget to choose a gift for myself once and I chose a JLC - which is telling two ways... 1) JLC seemed to me to provide the best watchmaking for the money; and, 2) I didn’t want to use my own money to buy one! I think the same rationale applies to GP.

Same calculus. This was a spouse approved purchase. Started with PP ... no f....ing way. JLC: yes depreciation but value for money and heritage and understated design. I’ll never sell it anyway and I love the watch.

guaranteed.rohu · Oct 9, 2018

Archer
I tend to buy watches and keep them for the most part, so if the watch takes a hit on resale (most do) then it really makes little difference to me.

Having said that, a large discrepancy between retail and street price may cause me to consider buying the watch second hand as a matter of getting value for my money, but that difference on it's own is not the big concern.

totally agree - I don't think resale value is a dealbreaker at all, by any means. to your point, earlier, I agree resale value shouldn't be a major focus for appreciation or indeed a sign of quality (or lack thereof).

It just means (as you pointed out) that you should seriously consider getting it second-hand if there's a huge disparity for a very similar/identical product.

I think for brands you're not familiar with though also (i.e. modern GP for me) the resale value is obviously a good indicator of the desirability of a watch. Good point on Blancpain, I forgot about them, agreed they've done far better than GP in modern times (and much earlier with JCB) to revamp their brand into the 'high end' category.

Food for thought!

many · Oct 9, 2018

Archer
I tend to buy watches and keep them for the most part, so if the watch takes a hit on resale (most do) then it really makes little difference to me.

Having said that, a large discrepancy between retail and street price may cause me to consider buying the watch second hand as a matter of getting value for my money, but that difference on it's own is not the big concern.

I guess the way I look at it if resale is a really primary consideration for people (not saying it is for anyone in particular) it leads you down a path of collecting only a very limited number of brands and watches. For me this would mean missing out on some outstanding watches, and I wouldn't own most of what I own right now.

So while I certainly don't want to overpay for something, what it would sell for is not a huge issue - hope that makes sense the way I'm trying to get it across...

Cheers, Al

That makes a lot of sense.

For me resale value is an important consideration if only because my taste in watches outstrips my abilty to afford them.

Vitezi · Oct 9, 2018

many
if only because my taste in watches outstrips my abilty to afford them

You aren't the only one 🙁

guaranteed.rohu · Oct 10, 2018

many
That makes a lot of sense.

For me resale value is an important consideration if only because my taste in watches outstrips my abilty to afford them.

:')

Tony C. · Oct 10, 2018

Archer
I don't pretend to define what "high end" means to people - hence my use of quotes for that phrase. But the OP is comparing these to VC and AP - in that context the vintage movements were certainly not "high end" although they may have been accurate. If accuracy is the test for you, that's fine, but then a bog standard ETA 7750 would be "high end" and most people would not make that association.

Cheers, Al

Yes, but no non-chronometer ETA or equivalent movement were able to achieve what the GP HF chronometers did in the early/mid '60s.

Whiskey · Oct 10, 2018

guaranteed.rohu
Wondering if there are any Girard Perregaux owners out there.

Investigating more into the brand, it is essentially of the same pedigree as Vacheron or AP (maybe even more so because GP made movements in house that were used by many other brands over the years, similar to JLC in this respect),

These days they make some ridiculous high end grand complications, that win many prizes and push the boundaries of watchmaking...

Yet they are significantly undervalued. Maybe arguably the movement finishing is a little bit below Vacheron/Lange/Patek nowadays, but the overall product is very very compelling.

Some examples below of the 1966 line which I love the aesthetics of. The enamel dial small seconds in the white gold is stunning!

Any GP owners, or people considering buying a GP , with thoughts on this?

Whiskey · Oct 10, 2018

They started life as Mimo. In addition to dress watches, they made some interesting tool watches under that name.