Is the movement correct?

konung39
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Have a nice day everyone!
Please tell me if this 30mm art deco watch has the correct movement? I understand that these watches were shipped to the US and used locally made cases.
And also, should the paint on the numbers contain radium or regular?

20250603_193355.webp 20250603_193407.webp 20250603_193440.webp
 
JimInOz
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Genuine movement, possibly an 11.87 or 11.88 caliber. Or it could be one of the 12''' series, they were all very similar so an accurate movement diameter would help pin it down.
American case and the lume, if original, would be radium (it looks original to me).
 
konung39
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JimInOz JimInOz
Genuine movement, possibly an 11.87 or 11.88 caliber. Or it could be one of the 12''' series, they were all very similar so an accurate movement diameter would help pin it down.
American case and the lume, if original, would be radium (it looks original to me).
Thank you! It's amazing that this is 1928, if you count by the movement number, and the dial is so well preserved and not oxidized by radium. At the same time, the radium paint on the hands is not preserved (by the way, I noticed that one hand is not original). And in watches with a sealed case from the 1940s, there is usually little left of the dial.
Perhaps the US was given a higher quality finish? The clockwork was also nickel plated, for example.
 
Waltesefalcon
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I like the mov't, that stripe pattern is very appealing. The dial, however, I have questions about; it may just be the photo, but that dial looks like it has been painted with metallic paint.
 
konung39
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
I like the mov't, that stripe pattern is very appealing. The dial, however, I have questions about; it may just be the photo, but that dial looks like it has been painted with metallic paint.
Maybe it's just metal? I once had a Longines dial - Tiffany of those years, it was metal, brass covered with silver, only the letters were printed with paint.
 
Waltesefalcon
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konung39 konung39
Maybe it's just metal? I once had a Longines dial - Tiffany of those years, it was metal, brass covered with silver, only the letters were printed with paint.
That's why I say it might be the photo. I have a Hamilton from the 20s with a silver dial that only has "Hamilton" and the minute track printed on it.

For me what seems a little off, is the texture of this dial. It looks more like paint than bare metal.
 
konung39
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same ref 12 92 , but white gold filled, and overprice
https://www.ebay.com/itm/196104496993

(Or is it just the caliber number next to the serial number? It looks like that)
Edited:
 
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konung39
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
That's why I say it might be the photo. I have a Hamilton from the 20s with a silver dial that only has "Hamilton" and the minute track printed on it.

For me what seems a little off, is the texture of this dial. It looks more like paint than bare metal.
konung39 konung39
same ref 12 92 , but white gold filled, and overprice
https://www.ebay.com/itm/196104496993
And this https://www.horol.com/items/cat6/0415.html
Edited:
 
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konung39
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
To me, both of those dials look original.
Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
To me, both of those dials look original.
I ended up buying this watch, when it arrives in the mail I'll take more photos if you're interested. For the price of $95, I think it's in good condition.
 
Waltesefalcon
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konung39 konung39
I ended up buying this watch, when it arrives in the mail I'll take more photos if you're interested. For the price of $95, I think it's in good condition.
For $95 it is a steal. I would be interested in seeing more of the dial.
 
konung39
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
That's why I say it might be the photo. I have a Hamilton from the 20s with a silver dial that only has "Hamilton" and the minute track printed on it.

For me what seems a little off, is the texture of this dial. It looks more like paint than bare metal.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/205530649462?itmmeta=01JX0093XRP08T0GVAK5M7ZTFV&hash=item2fda94d376:g:~sQAAOSwpNJoPjLD&itmprp=enc:AQAKAAAA4MHg7L1Zz0LA5DYYmRTS30m7HykZWl5umYoQXvl3+fxbK9x6o8VdeYV9TjFVFXAQrXEdVPJqrfW0HgTYe+eXbU9QIz13n9dwqjmz4c9oadQu01+rd/vyk339Pb6oYAfRohcQ+62JdENtT6OC5lDY+uuOGMsKHexp81oI1NxFAppe0JGucbtv72/KjIET3rKIvxZT+XqYiimxhKtPicVMMUeAE5kDi1siW0RlzKc6T2iSbQhs3HWIheOZATd+cTWzR339EJdKIGDL3PFxeIbhq31l+5RE8/tXa9QjawkaErrr|tkp:BFBMhL-kgOhl

As I understand it, they had the same case manufacturer (Wadsworth), and maybe the dial was also American-made.
 
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Waltesefalcon
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Yeah, Hamilton and American export Longines often used the same case maker, Wadsworth. Longines did this to avoid tariffs, every other part of the watch was Swiss made.
 
konung39
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
Yeah, Hamilton and American export Longines often used the same case maker, Wadsworth. Longines did this to avoid tariffs, every other part of the watch was Swiss made.

20250616_105923.webp 20250616_105859.webp 20250616_110034.webp 20250616_105949.webp
 
Waltesefalcon
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Looks like redial to me. That is silver paint, and metallic paints were not developed until the 1950s. It is nice work, and looks like it was possibly done by the old International Dial Company which is now defunct. They once did an Illinois dial for me that was cooked, their fonts and lettering were excellent.

The only other issue I am seeing is the mismatched hands, the minute hand is non-luminous while the hour hand was luminous, but has had the lume removed. If it were mine, I'd look for a matching hand set and enjoy it, it is a handsome watch. Congratulations on it.
 
konung39
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
Looks like redial to me. That is silver paint, and metallic paints were not developed until the 1950s. It is nice work, and looks like it was possibly done by the old International Dial Company which is now defunct. They once did an Illinois dial for me that was cooked, their fonts and lettering were excellent.

The only other issue I am seeing is the mismatched hands, the minute hand is non-luminous while the hour hand was luminous, but has had the lume removed. If it were mine, I'd look for a matching hand set and enjoy it, it is a handsome watch. Congratulations on it.
Thank you! I saw that there is a problem with the hands. The minute hand is not complete, the hour hand is missing paint and not all intact. I checked them today during the day, they go well and keep time correctly. I will open the case a little later and take a photo of the dial from all sides. If this was a restoration of a dial from the 50s, would the phosphor have been replaced with a safe one? This phosphor looks like old radium, it no longer glows in the dark.
 
Waltesefalcon
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I think it is a modern restoration, I do not believe it was done in the 50s. I only mentioned that because that was the decade metallic paints came onto the market, making it impossible to be an original dial with metallic paint.

Radium was used all the way up until the 60s.

The only fool proof way to check to see if it has radium lume is with a Geiger counter. I would be careful of handling the watch too much with the movement out of the case just in case my conjecture is wrong.
 
konung39
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
I think it is a modern restoration, I do not believe it was done in the 50s. I only mentioned that because that was the decade metallic paints came onto the market, making it impossible to be an original dial with metallic paint.

Radium was used all the way up until the 60s.

The only fool proof way to check to see if it has radium lume is with a Geiger counter. I would be careful of handling the watch too much with the movement out of the case just in case my conjecture is wrong.
This is a photo of how the luminescent paint glows under UV light. (Just like the radium on one of my old Omegas, where it definitely hasn't been replaced.)
I'm thinking of making a request to Longines using the serial number, maybe they can confirm whether the dial is original or repainted?

P.s. I removed the glass and took additional photos. The dial does shine, as if it were paint, but it looks like it is covered with a clear varnish. Perhaps this varnish fixes the paint on the numbers...

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Waltesefalcon
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It looks good with the bezel and crystal removed. There are enough things about this dial that continue to give me pause. The background texture and color continue to flummox me, I just can't square it with being original. Then there is the irregular print on the "Swiss" the lettering is too inconsistent, the thickness at the bottom of the first 'S', the thickness at the bottom of the 'W', the nearly missing serif at the top of the 'I'. The print in "Longines" similarly has issues with consistency in the 'L' both 'N's the 'I' and the 'E'. The seconds track also inconsistent, it has some thick lines and some thin lines, some, like the '21' mark that starts off thick and then tapers down to a thinner line. Then there is the fact that the dial seems to have absolutely no radium burn, and the overall pristine condition of the dial in contrast to the wear that is seen on the lugs, most evident on the lug at the 4:30 position. All those little bits of circumstantial evidence make me think it is a refinished dial.

That said, it is a good redial and on the wrist I am sure it looks great. I'll say it again, at under a $100 it was a good buy.
 
konung39
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Waltesefalcon Waltesefalcon
It looks good with the bezel and crystal removed. There are enough things about this dial that continue to give me pause. The background texture and color continue to flummox me, I just can't square it with being original. Then there is the irregular print on the "Swiss" the lettering is too inconsistent, the thickness at the bottom of the first 'S', the thickness at the bottom of the 'W', the nearly missing serif at the top of the 'I'. The print in "Longines" similarly has issues with consistency in the 'L' both 'N's the 'I' and the 'E'. The seconds track also inconsistent, it has some thick lines and some thin lines, some, like the '21' mark that starts off thick and then tapers down to a thinner line. Then there is the fact that the dial seems to have absolutely no radium burn, and the overall pristine condition of the dial in contrast to the wear that is seen on the lugs, most evident on the lug at the 4:30 position. All those little bits of circumstantial evidence make me think it is a refinished dial.

That said, it is a good redial and on the wrist I am sure it looks great. I'll say it again, at under a $100 it was a good buy.
I looked at other watches on the Internet with the same dial, or with the same number fonts - they all have markup and fonts are quite crooked. Perhaps they were made in the USA, and the technology and production run there were not the same as in Switzerland. By the way, the color of the phosphor is different everywhere, but it is on dials with such fonts (presumably made in the USA) that it has been preserved everywhere.
But for me it is important only for research purposes, I am waiting for the watch strap I ordered, I will wear it.

Maybe longines heritage will respond, but they haven't written anything yet, and their extended statement now costs 1,200 francs.
 
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