Interesting Early Luna

MSNWatch · Mar 5, 2013

Mithra,
Nice to see you a bit more active. Would love to see some of your vintage zenith pieces here.
Mike

MMMD · Mar 5, 2013

If It were my watch, I might let the museum have it... if they paid me what they paid for that prototype 3019 PHF, plus a bit more for the shiny delicious goldness. 😉

Interstatetime · Mar 5, 2013

m neuman
....However is it aestically interesting/pleasing... no not really. The harmony of the piece is not there. For me there are various things that make a timepiece special. Design is one of them. Beauty another. In my humble opinion this does not speak the language of its original creation. The Luna Lux/Espada in its gold chunky case and band make a statement representing a particular time in fashion and watchmaking , which go hand in hand.

Mithra,

Thank you for your comments. I know that some part of the aesthetic of any piece of human work is in the eye of the beholder. I like to believe that there is also some part of the aesthetic thread that we humans all hold in common. Having said that, I think we have to look into the mind of the original owner and keep in mind the context of its time to understand this watch. I have the privilege to have looked into the mind of the owner a tiny bit, if only through talking to his son briefly and looking at some of the artifacts he left behind.

This man was small in stature and formal in taste. He was also somewhat a technical pioneer in what was in his time a high tech business. So, he appreciated both technology and a formal aesthetic. Looking at his other watches the Espada would, in my judgement not have been his thing. Most of his watches were complicated and most were at least triple or perpetual date, but most, both pocket and wrist were pretty dressy/formal. My bet would be that he knew all about the race to produce the first automatic chrono and I can speculate from receipts and documents that he was in Switzerland in late 1969 or early '70. There is also documentation leading me to believe that he owned another Zenith standard ELP Chrono in 18k which dated to 1969. Unfortunately the records exist but so far the watch is nowhere to be found. I will bet that his jeweler in Switzerland let him know that Zenith was about to produce an ELP with triple date and moon phase and that he immediately wanted one. This weird Luna seems to be the watch he wanted.

As far as the look of the watch, I think when you put it in the context of its time (1970) it is aesthetically true to its owners taste. As far as my taste is concerned...I am starting to really like it. It looks fantastic on my wrist and my wrist is much bigger than the original owner's.

Cheers,

JohnC

m neuman · Mar 5, 2013

John I do not disagree with you as all taste is personal.
Another mater here is a mixture of some of those famous EP's. there is also a Captain DeLux in the back there as well

Apologizes for the inclusion of a few others (Bull head, Rolex, Patek, my father's Doxa)
But just a adhock picture of a bunch of gold I had. Although the jump hour Patek needs no excusing

Interstatetime · Mar 5, 2013

The jump hour Patek is a treasure and the rest of the oro is pretty nice too....especially the fancy dial, top second from left....A splendid and tasteful collection by ay measure.

LouS · Mar 5, 2013

That's quite a distinguished "bunch of gold." That G 582 on the gold bracelet is a standout IMO

ulackfocus · Mar 5, 2013

m neuman

Holy f-ing sheeyat! 😲 That's quite a box of goodies!

Wheels · Mar 5, 2013

Has anyone given any thought to the fact that, without the documentation or provenance supplied with this watch, almost everyone would have called this a Franken?! Which then begs the question, if there is this one, is there more? And more importantly, how can we tell?

MSNWatch · Mar 5, 2013

Very unique set of circumstances with this one though - but this is what it takes in terms of provenance and documentation that makes it likely factory legit.

MMMD · Mar 6, 2013

Wheels
Has anyone given any thought to the fact that, without the documentation or provenance supplied with this watch, almost everyone would have called this a Franken?! Which then begs the question, if there is this one, is there more? And more importantly, how can we tell?

I would have been hesitant to call Franken on this one (other than Factory-Franken), even without documentation. Ultra-rare dial, case and bracelet, rare movement, all mint, with said ultra-rare case nicely modified to accommodate moon and day pushers... hard for me to imagine this being other than an inside job.

BTW, I call blanket dibs on Mithra's treasure chest and all its contents. 😀

ulackfocus · Mar 6, 2013

MMMD
BTW, I call blanket dibs on Mithra's treasure chest and all its contents. 😀

Nope, not allowed and don't ask again or you'll be disqualified from calling dibs for a one month period (which could mean a dozen or more watches you'd lose). Just like you can only call 'shotgun' one ride at a time, you can only call 'dibs' one watch at a time.

Interstatetime · Mar 6, 2013

MMMD
I would have been hesitant to call Franken on this one (other than Factory-Franken), even without documentation. Ultra-rare dial, case and bracelet, rare movement, all mint, with said ultra-rare case nicely modified to accommodate moon and day pushers... hard for me to imagine this being other than an inside job.

MMMD,

I just want to say one thing about what you said above so that my pictures or descriptions do not make this watch seem like something it is not. My definition of "Mint" is probably different than yours. My definition of mint almost means that mint watches don't exist in the real world very often. Mint watches are in the condition they would have been in the store when they were purchased. They differ from New Old Stock in that they don't have all of their original packaging.

This watch is in nice shape but you can see signs of wear. You can tell that it has been wound and set and that the back has been off and it has been serviced. It has some light scratches from use. It is a nice watch who's owner wore and enjoyed it and tried to keep it in nice shape.

It might seem weird for the owner of a used watch to downgrade it on a public forum but I think the word "mint" means something and I think it gets thrown around a bit too much. I have been in the watch business for going on 40 years and have owned a lot of nice watches but few that fit my definition of mint.

Please understand that I mean no disrespect....but mint is...well....mint.

Kind regards,

JohnC

MMMD · Mar 6, 2013

Interstatetime
MMMD,

I just want to say one thing about what you said above so that my pictures or descriptions do not make this watch seem like something it is not. My definition of "Mint" is probably different than yours. My definition of mint almost means that mint watches don't exist in the real world very often. Mint watches are in the condition they would have been in the store when they were purchased. They differ from New Old Stock in that they don't have all of their original packaging.

This watch is in nice shape but you can see signs of wear. You can tell that it has been wound and set and that the back has been off and it has been serviced. It has some light scratches from use. It is a nice watch who's owner wore and enjoyed it and tried to keep it in nice shape.

It might seem weird for the owner of a used watch to downgrade it on a public forum but I think the word "mint" means something and I think it gets thrown around a bit too much. I have been in the watch business for going on 40 years and have owned a lot of nice watches but few that fit my definition of mint.

Please understand that I mean no disrespect....but mint is...well....mint.

Kind regards,

JohnC

Agree, "mint" is hyperbole... for some reason I have been prone to overstatement today... but my point is unchanged, as far as I am concerned. This would have been a heck of an unlikely home-made Franken.

Nope, your definition of "mint" is the same as mine, you just caught me exaggerating for effect... purely a rhetorical device. You'll never see me use the term in a sales listing, because I too wear my watches. 😀

Interstatetime · Mar 6, 2013

Thanks for understanding....and I'm glad for your opinion on the watch.

papaebetu · Mar 8, 2013

Hi all, I am GIGI from Italy, mentioned by John.
Just joined this nice forum, need to be contacted, as soon as possible, by Interstatetime (John)

GIGI

MMMD · Mar 8, 2013

Welcome GIGI. Happy to see you here.

LouS · Mar 8, 2013

Indeed. Benvenuto GIGI. A real eye for Zenith.