Identify this Universal Geneve?

billfactor · Mar 20, 2014

So Instagram user @lovewatches has posted this really wicked moonphase... any idea what it is, what reference it is,where I can find one and when??

Thanks!
Bill

woodwkr2 · Mar 21, 2014

Hold onto your wallet.

I've never seen one like that before. The Universal signature isn't correct, though, nor are the hands consistent with their typical catalog.

Also, why is there a ?date counter display above the moonphase window? It doesn't appear to count up to 31 and there's a proper date window at 6 O'clock. If we call it a power indicator, there's no hand.

I imagine that this is a redial/franken.

billfactor · Mar 21, 2014

Woodworkr2, I'm not buying it, was just wondering what the hell it is. The owner says it was an ultra rare piece made only for the Italian market?

I imagine that the numbers above the moonphase are related to something else, as they don't seem to be associated with any particular hand.

LouS · Mar 21, 2014

woodwkr2
Also, why is there a ?date counter display above the moonphase window? It doesn't appear to count up to 31 and there's a proper date window at 6 O'clock. If we call it a power indicator, there's no hand.

billfactor
I imagine that the numbers above the moonphase are related to something else, as they don't seem to be associated with any particular hand.

They are related to the moonphase. The top of the moon itself is the pointer - in the pic it is pointing to about 22. They are missing the "3" and the "27" because the top of the moon is obscured on this dial cutaway.

I doubt it's a franken. Looks perfectly authentic to me, although a more recent vintage than the ones we usually discuss.

billfactor · Mar 21, 2014

LouS, yeah he says it's some 80s model, but that's as far as he knows. I like it though...

woodwkr2 · Mar 21, 2014

LouS
They are related to the moonphase. The top of the moon itself is the pointer - in the pic it is pointing to about 22. They are missing the "3" and the "27" because the top of the moon is obscured on this dial cutaway.

I doubt it's a franken. Looks perfectly authentic to me, although a more recent vintage than the ones we usually discuss.

Any idea what the numbers actually refer to?

That UG logo ain't in Sala nor 100 ans de tradition horlogere (aka, the expanded Antiquorum auction catalog).
This one's way out of my wheelhouse, though.

It is such a shame that the Universal 'comeback' has been so bungled over the last two decades. We need only look at the modern Zenith to see what UG could become with some deep pockets and shiny marketing.

woodwkr2 · Mar 21, 2014

billfactor
LouS, yeah he says it's some 80s model, but that's as far as he knows. I like it though...

That moonphase is certainly eye catching, I'll give ya that! I like the date at 6 too.

woodwkr2 · Mar 21, 2014

Ahhh... I think I get it. If it goes to 27, then perhaps it's the tropical or sidereal month, which (from wiki):

The tropical month is the average time for the Moon to pass twice through the same equinox point of the sky. It is 27.32158 days, very slightly shorter than the sidereal month (27.32166) days, because of precession of the equinoxes. Unlike the sidereal month, it can be measured precisely.
The sidereal month is defined as the Moon's orbital period in a non-rotating frame of reference (which on average is equal to its rotation period in the same frame). It is about 27.32166 days (27 days, 7 hours, 43 minutes, 11.6 seconds). The exact duration of the orbital period cannot be easily determined, because the 'non-rotating frame of reference' cannot be observed directly. However, it is approximately equal to the time it takes the Moon to pass twice a "fixed" star (different stars give different results because all have proper motions and are not really fixed in position).

dsio · Mar 21, 2014

It looks very Patek 5070-esque in its dial design, especially the tachy scale and applied indicies

woodwkr2 · Mar 21, 2014

citizenrich
Lol I was just typing the same thing!! Haha

patek claims that it's very time consuming to produce dials with fancy gold applied Arabic numerals.

Patek claims that everything they produce is very time consuming. I'm sure it's true, but it's also part of their mystique.

Modest_Proposal · Mar 21, 2014

I believe it houses a quartz movement. I saw one on Ebay some time ago.

LouS · Mar 21, 2014

woodwkr2
Ahhh... I think I get it. If it goes to 27, then perhaps it's the tropical or sidereal month, which (from wiki):

The tropical month is the average time for the Moon to pass twice through the same equinox point of the sky. It is 27.32158 days, very slightly shorter than the sidereal month (27.32166) days, because of precession of the equinoxes. Unlike the sidereal month, it can be measured precisely.

The sidereal month is defined as the Moon's orbital period in a non-rotating frame of reference (which on average is equal to its rotation period in the same frame). It is about 27.32166 days (27 days, 7 hours, 43 minutes, 11.6 seconds). The exact duration of the orbital period cannot be easily determined, because the 'non-rotating frame of reference' cannot be observed directly. However, it is approximately equal to the time it takes the Moon to pass twice a "fixed" star (different stars give different results because all have proper motions and are not really fixed in position).

Being a moonphase, I would have thought it likely that it referred to the lunar month. 29.5 days, but the numbers on the ends are obliterated due to the design.

billfactor · Mar 24, 2014

I agree. The question still remains, what is it?? 😀

billfactor · Mar 25, 2014

So here's what I've discovered.

The movement is a Valjoux 7734 with a moonphase complication (obviously) --

I've not been able to drum up any other Universal Geneves, but I've found a Heuer, Tissot, Lorentz and Neuchatel that not only use the same movement, but also moonphase dial. I'm guessing it's from the 80s but could be wrong about that. Here are images of the different watches I was able to dig up with a cursory image search. Still haven't seen another UG like that one which, in my opinion, looks way better than these... assuming it's real.

B

CdnWatchDoc · Mar 31, 2014

A riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma...🍿

ulackfocus · Mar 31, 2014

A 2 register chrono with a date at 6 and a nice size moon phase? Oh boy, I might have to add this to the list.

What's the average case size for one of these watches powered by the 7734?

woodwkr2 · Mar 31, 2014

So far, I like the UG and Tissot. The styling looks like 1980s or early 90s to me.

Can't wait to find out...

woodwkr2 · Mar 31, 2014

The Breitling with the happy moon is 38mm.

woodwkr2 · Mar 31, 2014

There's a pocket watch version from 1992 (when apparently, there was a helluva lot of creativity in the Swiss watch industry)

Screen Shot 2014-03-31 at 10.15.30 PM.png

Screen Shot 2014-03-31 at 10.15.42 PM.png

:

Privateday7 · Mar 31, 2014

Cool dial design. The UG has the best design among them IMO.