Help me identify UG calibre 291

Myrsnipern · Mar 18, 2014

I believe this is aUniversal Geneve Triple date moonphase with calibre 291. It measures 45mm from lug to lug and has a 36 mm case diamater without crown. Thickness without crystal is 7mm. It is stainless steel and hand winding movement.

Could any of the forums more veteran and experenced fans of UG please help me with information about the watch? Is it genuine? Does it have a model number? What year or decade is it from? What could it be worth?

Sorry about the focus on one of the photos, but the rest should be ok.

eustace · Mar 18, 2014

Very similar example discussed at the bottom of this thread:

http://omegaforums.net/threads/anot...triple-date-with-moonphase.10994/#post-128289

Myrsnipern · Mar 18, 2014

eustace
Very similar example discussed at the bottom of this thread:

http://omegaforums.net/threads/anot...triple-date-with-moonphase.10994/#post-128289

I agree. There is a difference in the two small hands on this one also, but not a red one like the one discussed. No markings on the back of the one I either.... Other thoughts?

LouS · Mar 18, 2014

Unfortunately, the single out of focus photo is the critical dial shot. How many eBay listings have you seen like this?🙄

I can tell you that the hands - all but one of them - are not authentic to this watch. In fact the hour and minute hands look modern. The movement has had some branding milled off of it (perhaps Mervos or one of the other companies that marketed this moonphase calendar) but is an authentic 291. The dial looks like a redial but I reserve judgement until I can see a more sharply focused shot. Case is a plausible UG case despite the lack of reference and case number.

ELV web · Mar 19, 2014

http://www.farfo.com/menswatches/Page1/mervos-universal-geneve-moonphase-calendar-watch.html
I am the owner of a franken UG triple date, the case in the pictures you posted above are similar to mine and the mervos (modest proposal found it) in this link, albeit the serial numbers are scrubbed off. The movement is essentially the same as mine (in the post you referred to) and similar to the mervos, with deep milled line, although the mervos is signed martell, the maker of the cal 291 and was under the ownership of UG back then. Agree with Lou that it would help to have clearer pics. I actually tried to grab the mervos as well (out of curiosity) but it was already sold.

Myrsnipern · Mar 19, 2014

Thanks for all your wisdom guys! Looks like a big NO GO for me. The watch is listed on ebay, but the seller is only refering to it as a Universal wristwatch. Little info and as you see bad photos. Seems like this guy knows what he is doing and not a noob as I was hoping for. The price is not optimal now either.

Any one got a nice one for sales? 💰

woodwkr2 · Mar 19, 2014

The engraving of "Universal Geneve" on a calibre 291 is typically curved and follows the contours of that bridge. Notice that this engraving is straight across. Combined with the fact that it has had something scrubbed from the side of that same bridge leads me to believe that this piece began its life as a Mervos and was later "converted" to a Universal courtesy of some engraving handiwork and a redial.

As Lou pointed out, there's only one correct hand on this piece.

I'd stay far, far away.

woodwkr2 · Mar 19, 2014

This is how it likely began life, courtesy of Farfo:

Screen Shot 2014-03-19 at 9.37.21 AM.png

There's nothing wrong with a Mervos branded piece, and as was pointed out, UG came to own Martel. Shame that someone ruined a watch in their efforts to "upgrade" the branding--though from the looks of the movement, perhaps it was already trashed.

woodwkr2 · Mar 19, 2014

Previous comment deleted.

LouS · Mar 19, 2014

woodwkr2
...as was pointed out, UG came to own Martel.

There's pretty good evidence that this was NOT the case, although there was a lengthy period when Martel apparently had an exclusive agreement with UG to supply chronograph and chronograph with complication ebauches. The only company that ever owned Martel was Zenith, following a brief period during which Martel functioned independently, issuing watches under its own brand.

woodwkr2 · Mar 19, 2014

LouS
There's pretty good evidence that this was NOT the case, although there was a lengthy period when Martel apparently had an exclusive agreement with UG to supply chronograph and chronograph with complication ebauches. The only company that ever owned Martel was Zenith, following a brief period during which Martel functioned independently, issuing watches under its own brand.

It's a long, winding, and complicated story, ain't it? Thanks for the correction.

LouS · Mar 19, 2014

woodwkr2
It's a long, winding, and complicated story, ain't it? Thanks for the correction.

Indeed, full of obscure agreements and family connections like many things in Swiss watches.