Dispute over box: opinions please

SpikiSpikester
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Having just been threatened with "legal action" (although I don't know for what) for telling a seller that a box was not a "Genuine Omega vintage box in good condition", I am interested in your opinions on the box.

The sellers photos aren't very clear, but there is no base as such to the box. It is just a piece of plastic which folds over from the case back to form a base. There is no hinge - just a fold in the plastic. The "leatherette" cover stops a few mm into the underside of the base, leaving the rest of the underside as exposed pinkish plastic with some glue marks. The internal "silk" Omega marked lining is a card backed insert which appears glued in, although coming away along one side. Similarly, the "leatherette" covering is coming away on one of the front edges, where glue has given way & the cutting of the edges to form the edge is visible and not neat.

At a glance, it is plainly not of the quality of any other Omega box I own. But if anyone here is aware of such a box ever having been made by Omega, please let me know.

Thanks

omega vintage box.jpg omega vintage box2.jpg
 
dsio
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Pictures would be required I think

What's the seller's feedback like?
 
SpikiSpikester
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Sorry, computer glitch. Photo's now attached. Seller's feedback largely ok, but on closer inspection has at least one allegation of dishonesty. I hadn't spotted that before.
 
dsio
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Some of the boxes are a bit crap, the modern 1990s / early 2000s ones have pleather that peels off on its own
 
U
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Are you saying the frame of the box is exposed instead of completely covered by the red leather? Never saw ANY decent watch company do that. Tell him to sue you - he's bluffing. Then tell him you only want your money back. If he didn't show a picture of the damaged part(s) he was lying by omission which is an improperly described item so you'll win the dispute. If he makes it difficult, expose him on every watch forum you can. There are getting to be too many sheisters and flakes in the vintage watch game.
 
SpikiSpikester
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About 90% of the underside was completely exposed, including a small gnarled black staple. If you look at the edges around the top of the base you'll see no pleather at all.

I have said I just want my refund, but he is being difficult & trying to call my bluff. So, I have just escalated the dispute to eBay protection centre as SNAD (significantly not as described) for being both not a "Genuine Omega box" and not in "good condition". I will sue him in the small claims court if that doesn't work. I'm a lawyer, so you can imagine how pleased I was to get an unjustified threat of legal action over a £40 item.

Ashley - I understand about the pleather, but have Omega ever produced a watch box that has no hinges & instead relies on a fold in the plastic body of the box as a hinge ?
 
dsio
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SpikiSpikester SpikiSpikester
About 90% of the underside was completely exposed, including a small gnarled black staple. If you look at the edges around the top of the base you'll see no pleather at all.

I have said I just want my refund, but he is being difficult & trying to call my bluff. So, I have just escalated the dispute to eBay protection centre as SNAD (significantly not as described) for being both not a "Genuine Omega box" and not in "good condition". I will sue him in the small claims court if that doesn't work. I'm a lawyer, so you can imagine how pleased I was to get an unjustified threat of legal action over a £40 item.

Ashley - I understand about the pleather, but have Omega ever produced a watch box that has no hinges & instead relies on a fold in the plastic body of the box as a hinge ?
I honestly have never owned a vintage Omega box so I'm the wrong one to ask, but it sounds far too shoddy, especially considering they put a lot of effort into that sort of thing back then.
 
seamonster
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SpikiSpikester SpikiSpikester
About 90% of the underside was completely exposed, including a small gnarled black staple. If you look at the edges around the top of the base you'll see no pleather at all.

I have said I just want my refund, but he is being difficult & trying to call my bluff. So, I have just escalated the dispute to eBay protection centre as SNAD (significantly not as described) for being both not a "Genuine Omega box" and not in "good condition". I will sue him in the small claims court if that doesn't work. I'm a lawyer, so you can imagine how pleased I was to get an unjustified threat of legal action over a £40 item.

Ashley - I understand about the pleather, but have Omega ever produced a watch box that has no hinges & instead relies on a fold in the plastic body of the box as a hinge ?

Respectable Member SpikiSpikester

You have made the correct move, by taking the dispute to eBay. Let him sue you for 40pounds. He must have a lot of time in the world, suing people for this paltry sum. As far as I know, generally if someone wants to sue you, he will ask his lawyer to shoot you a letter, straightaway. Very likely, he is only a barking dog.

Since you are a lawyer, just wait for the letter from his.

Personally, I do not think you will just say a box is not genuine. I believe you have your reason or proof to substantiate your allegation.

Please update our forum members.

Good luck and God bless.

Thank-you.
 
SpikiSpikester
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Thank you for your kind comments Seamonster. The talk of legal action went away as soon as I mentioned I'm a lawyer, but he is still being difficult.
I've never seen a piece of rubbish as bad as the box I was sent. It just goes to show how much can be concealed with careful photography.

My office sends out stacks of post every day & it is very odd that the only undelivered item is this particular one. On his part, he doesn't have the required proof for eBay that the item was "genuine Omega", but I can't prove he hasn't received the return. I will report back on what eBay decide.

In the meantime, if anyone else has a view on the authenticity of the box I'd be interested to hear.
 
seamonster
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SpikiSpikester SpikiSpikester
Thank you for your kind comments Seamonster. The talk of legal action went away as soon as I mentioned I'm a lawyer, but he is still being difficult.
I've never seen a piece of rubbish as bad as the box I was sent. It just goes to show how much can be concealed with careful photography.

My office sends out stacks of post every day & it is very odd that the only undelivered item is this particular one. On his part, he doesn't have the required proof for eBay that the item was "genuine Omega", but I can't prove he hasn't received the return. I will report back on what eBay decide.

In the meantime, if anyone else has a view on the authenticity of the box I'd be interested to hear.

Respectable Member SpikiSpikester

Kindly up-date us, regarding your issue with the unscrupulous element from eBay.

Hopefully, he has stopped barking, so that he is able to see the parcel containing his box has already arrived.

Thank-you.
 
gatorcpa
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In my opinion, this started out as a genuine Omega box, vintage late 1960's or early 1970's. However, I think that something happened to the bottom of the box, that part of it seems to be missing.

The cheapness of the top insert is unfortunately very typical of these boxes. I'd actually pay a (very) few bucks for the red watch insert, as I think it would fit mine.

Can't post photo now, as Photobucket seems to be down at the moment.
gatorcpa
 
SpikiSpikester
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gatorcpa gatorcpa
In my opinion, this started out as a genuine Omega box, vintage late 1960's or early 1970's. However, I think that something happened to the bottom of the box, that part of it seems to be missing.

The cheapness of the top insert is unfortunately very typical of these boxes. I'd actually pay a (very) few bucks for the red watch insert, as I think it would fit mine.

Can't post photo now, as Photobucket seems to be down at the moment.
gatorcpa

At first I thought that, but the absence of anywhere for the box hinges to go (or any indication of where they might ever have been) and the fact that the bottom is just a continuation of the plastic from the case top, that has a simple fold along the whole edge to make it form the base, makes me think otherwise.

Of course if there ever was a box that opened & closed without a mechanical hinge then we might be onto something. As it is I've never seen a watch box constructed like that, but I am willing to be corrected.
 
gatorcpa
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No, I think that someone removed the bottom. My box has the hinges hidden by the outer "pleather" covering. I can see the bottom being removed along with the hinge, leaving just the red insert and some extra outer covering.

Glue down that extra material to the outside of the insert to hold it all together, and I think that's what you have. Why someone would take the time or trouble to do this, I haven't a clue.

Again, I only stated that I think this started out as an original Omega box. It certainly isn't original, or even a box at this point.
gatorcpa

P.S. - Photobucket is back. Here's the pictures of the inside of my box. Note that I'm missing the "Omega" silk and the red insert:

conste2.jpg
 
SpikiSpikester
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I see what you mean & it does sound possible. But at this point I think we're pretty much agreed that a description of "genuine Omega vintage box in good condition for it's age" doesn't come close to being acceptable.

And, there is one particular reason I can think of for someone to do it...
 
Robert-Jan
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Hi,

There should be a number on the back, from the top of my head it is 1501 or 1503. I think fakes are lacking this number. This type of boxes were used in the 1960s for Constellations, Seamasters and Speedmasters. I have two of them, one of them was with my families Constellation when they bought it in 1968.

RJ
 
Robert-Jan
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OK. I just fetched mine from the attic (truth! 😀) and it says ref. 1501 and 'Box made in Switzerland'.
 
SpikiSpikester
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That's really helpful, thank you.

If you would like to sell it, please let me know ! I am still looking for a c.1970 box of this type 😗
 
Robert-Jan
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No no, it belongs to my 1967 Speedy 😀
 
SpikiSpikester
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Well it was worth a try 😉

Or perhaps I should be trying to persuade you to sell the watch together with the box 😁
 
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