Buyer Beware: Fake Mitsukoshi Speedmaster 3570.31

JwRosenthal
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blufinz52 blufinz52
I paid $1,100 for the dial and handset and $320 for the micro-adjustment clasp.
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Total trash- send it to me and I’ll dispose of it properly.
 
Evitzee
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rcs914 rcs914
I'll go one further - when it comes to the Japanese Racing Dial model I honestly don't think it matters one whit if you have one that is in the actual serial number range or one that was just built from the (once readily available) Omega parts. Still kind of kicking myself for not investing in the dial and hands for one when you could get them for $500 or so.
Completely agree. If a company is going to produce a 'special' model with the only difference being the dial and hands (example Mitsukoshi and Racing Special) and then allowing anyone to buy those dials and hands for years on end, sorry, it is hard for me to justify the premium put on the ones that happen to be the 'real ones' blessed by Omega's numbering system. Omega finally wised up and shut off the spigot of the freewheeling sales of dials, hands and backs, better late than never, but there is nothing inferior about a modded model to produce a Mitsukoshi or Racing Special model. Pay a premium and treasure the warranty card that has that special retailer stamp if you want.
 
YY77
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Scarecrow Boat Scarecrow Boat
Here are a couple listings pulled only from OF for an at a glance trajectory:

Complete Dial & Handset
May 2018- $850. Took a couple days to sell.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/omega-speedmaster-mitsukoshi-panda-dial-hands-set.76409/

June 2018- €700. No indication for length of sale.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/mitsukoshi-panda-dial-handset-new.77129/

May 2019- $1,450. ~18 months for sale
https://omegaforums.net/threads/nos-mitsukoshi-dial-and-handset-3570-31.94843/

April 2022- $3,400. No indication for length of sale.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/new-omega-speedmaster-mitsukoshi-dial-and-hands-panda.144865/

June 2022- £2,995. No indication for length of sale.
https://omegaforums.net/threads/mitsukoshi-dial-and-handset-£2995.146455/

Just the dial
July 2023- £3,400 (was £3,999). Still for sale
https://omegaforums.net/threads/mitsukoshi-dial-new-in-sealed-blister-pack.161446/
On a local watchforum currently dial and hands are listed FS €2.2k

https://www.horlogeforum.nl/t/tk-mi...ijzerset-voor-omega-speedmaster/500808?u=yy77
 
Scarecrow Boat
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Evitzee Evitzee
That $1,000 dial and hands shouldn't last long. Excellent price.
It didn't last long at all. I shared the listing above not expecting to go for it, but quickly realized I likely won’t see that price again. My wife loves Speedy’s and with the added encouragement from her, I’m happy to say I’m the buyer of this one.
 
W
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Recently got a sealed Apollo white panda and hands from C24 for 1425 USD for a mod project but ended up not using it since I was able to get my old Mitsukoshi mod back from a bud.

This seller had more than one sets in fact.
 
watchstick_81
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M mountainunder
Mitsukoshi is 三越 in Japanese.
Thanks for the valuable info! Do you know why there are so many variations of the Mitsukoshi warranty card stamps? There are also cards stamped with Mitsukoshi in English, or are these fake as well?
Edited:
 
M
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watchstick_81 watchstick_81
Thanks for the valuable info! Do you know why there are so many variations of the same watch department of Mitsukoshi? There are also cards stamped with Mitsukoshi in English, or are these fake as well?
Mitsukoshi is a Japanese department store, but it has branches both in Japan and overseas. The reason is that these watches were sold at the watch sections of those various stores.
M mountainunder
Mitsukoshi is 三越 in Japanese.
IMG_20240405_200416.jpg IMG_20240405_201711.jpg IMG_20240405_201509.jpg
The first photo shows a watch that was sold at the Hiroshima branch of Mitsukoshi, the second one at the main store, and the third at the Yokohama branch.
 
watchstick_81
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M mountainunder
Mitsukoshi is a Japanese department store, but it has branches both in Japan and overseas. The reason is that these watches were sold at the watch sections of those various stores.

The first photo shows a watch that was sold at the Hiroshima branch of Mitsukoshi, the second one at the main store, and the third at the Yokohama branch.
Thank you very much! So stamped warranty cards with Mitsukoshi (in English) were sold overseas? I’m currently investigating if I should make the jump from a mod to the real deal, knowing that there will always be a chance of a modified one.
 
Evitzee
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watchstick_81 watchstick_81
Thank you very much! So stamped warranty cards with Mitsukoshi (in English) were sold overseas? I’m currently investigating if I should make the jump from a mod to the real deal, knowing that there will always be a chance of a modified one.
Do you already have a modded Mitsukoshi? If you do what is the rationale for adding money for the 'real deal? Other than the dial and hands there is nothing special about a Mitsukoshi. Just trying to understand what your thinking is here. Collector purity?
 
watchstick_81
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Evitzee Evitzee
Do you already have a modded Mitsukoshi? If you do what is the rationale for adding money for the 'real deal? Other than the dial and hands there is nothing special about a Mitsukoshi. Just trying to understand what your thinking is here. Collector purity?
Good question! I have been thinking about this for a long time. I have the mod for some years now. The base is a 3572.50, so it has a nice display caseback and the better bracelet 1498/840. I love the looks but it always bothered me that it’s not the real deal. I was recently thinking about selling it and I am currently wearing it during my summer holiday to give it a final try. I still love it and now I’ve decided a real one can take away that itch. Ofcourse a genuine one doesn’t offer much more on the visual side, probably less without the view on the 1863 caliber with my mod. But knowing that it can be one of 300 (probably less by now), does make sense to me and it will keep its value anyway. That way it’s a Mitsukoshi and not a Modsukoshi. Fake it until you make it right? I don’t care what other people think of the value of my collection, I try to balance it to my liking and not to impress others.

Anyway, it’s a snake pit and without an extract or other hard proof I’m not buying a real one, as it can also be a regular Moonwatch delivered to the warehouse around the same time and modded later on. Same reason I’m not buying a Smiley Speedymoon, as this was never registered in the Omega archives. Anyway, prices seem to be reasonable at the moment, so a fun way to explore the market. I also want a 345.0802 from 1981 so let’s see how it goes 😄

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pdxleaf
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watchstick_81 watchstick_81
... I now love it again 🤭 but I don’t fully appreciate it because it’s a mod. Ofcourse a genuine one doesn’t offer much more on the visual side, probably less without the view on the 1863 caliber...

As a mod owner, I understand this. It's one reason why I haven't done a complete copy, from dial, hands, bezel, caseback, and sometimes pushers. It's tempting, but then you're left with that fake feeling. But if you mod by picking elements, which almost always starts with a dial, then use hands or casebacks, etc, that make it your own, it's more in keeping with the spirit of customization, as opposed to imitation. I'm not meaning to denigrate anyone who likes a full copy, as that's a personal decision. But sometimes there's no substitute for owning the real thing.
 
watchstick_81
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pdxleaf pdxleaf
It's tempting, but then you're left with that fake feeling.
Good point about making it your own with different elements! I just happen to like the original a lot. To each their own! I don’t judge owners of mods, as long as they don’t portray the watch as a real one.
 
watchstick_81
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Update! Nearly got scammed!

On Chrono24 I came across a full set from Japan (with recent full service by Omega), so this included the "important" Mitsukoshi signed warranty card. The card had the correct reference number and year on it. But the serial seemed to be a bit high and as @mountainunder kindly pointed out to me, it can also be a regular 3570.50 sold by Mitsukoshi in 2003. The dealer would not disclose the serial until I had completed the payment, which I did. But I asked them not to send anything until I had the serial checked. Unfortunately it turned out to be a modded 3570.50!!!! Damn....No money lost (full refund) and I am posting it here as future reference! Be careful guys.
1754649231622.webp 1754649080059.webp
 
Ron_W
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watchstick_81 watchstick_81
Update! Nearly got scammed!

On Chrono24 I came across a full set from Japan (with recent full service by Omega), so this included the "important" Mitsukoshi signed warranty card. The card had the correct reference number and year on it. But the serial seemed to be a bit high and as @mountainunder kindly pointed out to me, it can also be a regular 3570.50 sold by Mitsukoshi in 2003. The dealer would not disclose the serial until I had completed the payment, which I did. But I asked them not to send anything until I had the serial checked. Unfortunately it turned out to be a modded 3570.50!!!! Damn....No money lost (full refund) and I am posting it here as future reference! Be careful guys.
1754649231622.webp 1754649080059.webp
Good job on double checking !!
 
watchstick_81
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Ron_W Ron_W
Good job on double checking !!
Thanks! It now turns out to be a 3570.50 from April 2005! So the warranty card doesn't even match the watch. Mindblowing!
 
Archer
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watchstick_81 watchstick_81
Thanks! It now turns out to be a 3570.50 from April 2005! So the warranty card doesn't even match the watch. Mindblowing!
One thing to be aware of is that when people are subscribed to this thread, they get an email that includes photos. You forgot to blur the service card originally, so I double checked and yes it's just a regular Speedmaster...

77146400.webp


Not sure why you would blur the serial number of a watch that is known to be a mod. I don't think hiding the serial number of a watch that has already been used to try to deceive someone is a good thing. When people ask me to verify these (which happens a lot), I want the information out in public either way, so that we can build up a database of sorts of good and bad watches. That way if someone Googles the serial number 77146400, the result will pop up. It might save someone else from getting scammed.

So what did the seller say when you confronted them with this information? If they were trying to cheat you, it might be worth saying who the seller was.

There's another interesting thing here. The service card doesn't give the model number, just the serial number. But we can assume 2 things:

1 - the watch was not modded when Omega serviced it, and it was modded after.

Or...

2 - the watch was modded and they didn't check to make sure what it actually was.

Now the first thing I do when I get a watch in for service is check the serial number to make sure it is what it's being portrayed as, but I wouldn't assume every service center or watchmaker does this. So I guess this should be reminder that having a service card from a recent service is not proof of anything when it comes to the watch being what the seller claims it is.
 
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