A277 Sub-Diver or El Primero A385 for X-Mas

iChristos · Dec 8, 2023

Dear Zenith expert,

This week I was looking to trade one of my Special Speedy for X-mas and I find a financial fair deal with a pro located in Switzerland (Who's knows, he is maybe also an OF member).

I was pricing my Special Speedy around 6&7k for a trade and the pro says that it was a fair value, I was interested by two of his watches, one A277 Sub-Diver & A El-Primero A385.

First of all my question is, is everything ok? The Pro says me that everything was original and not polished except the strap of the A277 but maybe they are some alerts or double checks to do before make the deal?

For which one would you go? Esthetically? Value for Money wise? A277 will not be a loss on the resell in some years? I don't care about 10-20% but 50 could be a no-go.

I will wear this watch at least 2-times a week.

To be honest, I didn't know about the A277 and the flash was this faded bezel because in better shape, I don't like it so much and yes The El Primero is one of the masterpiece we all want in our collection.

I join the two links:

https://lorologiese.com/product/zenith-sub-sea-ref-a277-vintage-steel-chronograph-cal-146hp/

https://lorologiese.com/product/zen...riginal-1969-vintage-chronograph-cal-3019phc/

Don't hesitate to share your thoughts and experts advices.

Best regards,
Christos

YY77 · Dec 8, 2023

First off the links are of the same watch, second it would help you to get replies if you post pics in this thread instead of links.

iChristos · Dec 8, 2023

YY77
First off the links are of the same watch, second it would help you to get replies if you post pics in this thread instead of links.

Thanks for have seiing that, done.

asrnj77 · Dec 8, 2023

The A385 has an aftermarket bracelet and service crown. you’re basically buying it as head only. Also looks like the case has been refinished. That might not be a bad thing for you but something to consider. I’m guessing the serial has been polished off the back.

I don’t know what A277s are going for these days so can help much there but dealers aren’t going to trade at a loss or even. He clearly values your watch much more. I’d also like to see what the crown looks like. Not sure if you’ve tried one on before but it’s a chunky watch at 14.5mm with 22mm lugs

Dan S · Dec 8, 2023

Neither is worth 7k Euro, but maybe you don't really care so much about that if you've had the Speedmaster for a long time. I think it's up to you, which one gives you more joy.

BTW, I don't think the bracelet is aftermarket, but it's not the original ladder bracelet so it's not worth too much. And personally, the bezel on the A277 is too far gone for me.

iChristos · Dec 9, 2023

Dan S
Neither is worth 7k Euro, but maybe you don't really care so much about that if you've had the Speedmaster for a long time. I think it's up to you, which one gives you more joy.

BTW, I don't think the bracelet is aftermarket, but it's not the original ladder bracelet so it's not worth too much. And personally, the bezel on the A277 is too far gone for me.

Thank's for answering me, what's the right value for you of those two watches ?
The A277 is listed 7k Eur and the El primero 9.5k Eur.
Yes, I bought this speedy long time ago, and the speedy market is also quiet at this moment so you win and you lose somewhere.
Here is it more to not buy something wrong.

iChristos · Dec 9, 2023

asrnj77
The A385 has an aftermarket bracelet and service crown. you’re basically buying it as head only. Also looks like the case has been refinished. That might not be a bad thing for you but something to consider. I’m guessing the serial has been polished off the back.

I don’t know what A277s are going for these days so can help much there but dealers aren’t going to trade at a loss or even. He clearly values your watch much more. I’d also like to see what the crown looks like. Not sure if you’ve tried one on before but it’s a chunky watch at 14.5mm with 22mm lugs

You're right maybe when I am gonna try them, my choice would be directly done.
This bracelet is nice, an original one is not cheap and I don't know how difficult it is to find a not serviced crown.
I can live with the refinished case but all your remark will have an effect on the value of the watch.

My Speedy Bezel is also far and the watch has never been polished so it is not in prime condition.

asrnj77 · Dec 9, 2023

Yeah it’s whatever make sense to you. The service crown was a legitimate piece installed by the service centers so nothing wrong with it but if you wanted the original crown you’ll have to hunt a bit and probably pay $300-400. The bracelet and end links would be + $2200. The trade factor is appealing and makes thing easier for you but you can find an A385 or A384 with crown and bracelet for not much more than you’d be investing now.

Gopher · Dec 13, 2023

Both are nice models. Normally, I would go for the A385. Crown is not a big deal and you must assume every watch of this era has been polished (anyone who says otherwise is lying). Need to be good with the odd case, of course, as it is not for everyone. The main hands look off to me. Maybe just the lighting. I would want to see them in different light to be sure. And I do not love the faded color of the chrono seconds hand. I would do more diligence first. Speedies, while nice, are everywhere! El Primeros are rmore rare and special (Speedy lovers will flame away!). But need to ensure the A385 checks out first.

In the end, however, only you can make the value call according to your eyes, heart, and bank account.

Interesting options.

Let us know what you decide.

TexOmega · Dec 17, 2023

My A386 III is from that era and has not been polished.

iChristos · Dec 17, 2023

TexOmega
My A386 III is from that era and has not been polished.

Beautiful one, I receive also one from Zenith Icon but they are asking 40k

iChristos · Dec 17, 2023

Gopher
Both are nice models. Normally, I would go for the A385. Crown is not a big deal and you must assume every watch of this era has been polished (anyone who says otherwise is lying). Need to be good with the odd case, of course, as it is not for everyone. The main hands look off to me. Maybe just the lighting. I would want to see them in different light to be sure. And I do not love the faded color of the chrono seconds hand. I would do more diligence first. Speedies, while nice, are everywhere! El Primeros are rmore rare and special (Speedy lovers will flame away!). But need to ensure the A385 checks out first.

In the end, however, only you can make the value call according to your eyes, heart, and bank account.

Interesting options.

Let us know what you decide.

Normally I will go for the Sub sea this week.
I received also a lot of OF Members offering their El Primero but I mentioned it is part of a trade.
This week I will let you know.

Christos

iChristos · Dec 19, 2023

Trade done.
One speedy less and one Zenith A277 more.
Will try to find a ladder original bracelet with the time and why not an insert for the bezel.
Difficult but not impossible.

Gopher · Dec 19, 2023

iChristos
Trade done.
One speedy less and one Zenith A277 more.
Will try to find a ladder original bracelet with the time and why not an insert for the bezel.
Difficult but not impossible.

Congrats! That A277 has character I do not mind the weathered bezel at all. I may be in the minority, but these are vintage watches, so a little patina is not bad. If you want perfect, buy new

Gopher · Dec 19, 2023

TexOmega
My A386 III is from that era and has not been polished.

Looks like a first-rate polishing job! 😀

iChristos · Dec 19, 2023

Gopher
Congrats! That A277 has character I do not mind the weathered bezel at all. I may be in the minority, but these are vintage watches, so a little patina is not bad. If you want perfect, buy new

Thank you, actually I loved the patina on the bezel, make it unique.

itsjustausername · Dec 19, 2023

Lovely A277, congrats and enjoy!

Zuke · Dec 19, 2023

Congrats!!!!

I found this thread too late to give you my suggestion ahead of your trade. But if it was me I would have taken the A277 for sure. Beautiful watch. Enjoy

iChristos · Jan 12, 2024

Hi all,
I am coming back to you with the photoshoot of the beast.
Very happy of my choice.
I am looking for a Ladder bracelet with the right end links but prices are crazy. 1 listed at 3.2k€ & 1 from a A3736 with no endlinks 1t 2.2k€, so I think it's too pricey.
I was also looking to ask for the extract of archives but no number on the case or the movement so looks complicated at a first sight.
Enjoy the pictures.

TexOmega · Jan 17, 2024

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Gopher
Looks like a first-rate polishing job! 😀

Right from the factory 1972