A question about PP96 history?

Syrte · Jul 31, 2018

Sorry for repeat post. Found this article about the History of the Calatrava on Monochrome which claims - without any sourcing - that the PP Calatrava design was inspired from Bauhaus.
https://monochrome-watches.com/hist...alatrava-part-1-reference-96/#image-gallery-1

The article is otherwise very interesting but my BS alarm went off as there has just been too much hype lately about Bauhaus and again, I’m just very skeptical about any and all of the information published on the watch blogs without any attribution or documentation.

@STANDY thinks indeed it’s just an opinion and not truth, he has another and very interesting explanation about the Great depression demanding watches that were understated and not showy.

Is there any serious history of PP which has been written with proper research and sourcing and where this could be verified?

Thanks and best regards
S

Vitezi · Jul 31, 2018

Many, many reference books on PP as you probably know. One of them probably describes the Reference 96 as Bauhaus inspired, and the rest is history. Or at least is the reason why the claim shows up in so many blogs.

This source quotes subject matter expert "Estelle Fallet, curator of the Musée d’Horlogerie et de l’Émaillerie in Geneva, (who) singles out the Calatrava for having “applied the principles of Bauhaus to watch design.” "

Still only an opinion, but it's an expert opinion. 😉

Darlinboy · Jul 31, 2018

As far as I know, and I admit my knowledge on this topic isn’t extensive, PP has not shared any documents from its archives that would shed light on the design influence. Lacking any contemporaneous commentary from the PP designers of the early Calatrava references, IMHO it will remain a matter of speculation. Simplicity of design, which is often noted as a primary feature of the Calatrava was only one dimension of the Bauhas school, and was not exclusive to it.

LouS · Jul 31, 2018

Yeah, sure, it was a side project of Gropius'. Ebbybody know dat. He did all the straightforward three handers -- all of IWC, etc. He's still working for Nomos. 🙄

'Bauhaus' is the new 'Art Deco," I guess.

ConElPueblo · Aug 1, 2018

LouS
Yeah, sure, it was a side project of Gropius'. Ebbybody know dat. He did all the straightforward three handers -- all of IWC, etc. He's still working for Nomos. 🙄

'Bauhaus' is the new 'Art Deco," I guess.

...A term spread by people who like to add a few foreign words to their monologues to impress others, I'm sure. Another notable expressions bandied about is "The Third Reich" - surely you mean either "Dritte Reich" or "Third Kingdom", not that bastardization???

michael22 · Aug 1, 2018

Does a designer need to say "inspired by Bauhaus" for it to be so?
Is it possible for a designer of the '30s to have not been affected by the earlier decades?

A design is what it is, not what it is labelled.

rcs914 · Aug 1, 2018

I find it interesting that "Bauhaus" when it refers to a watch is almost exclusively interchangeable with "minimalist". Considering that this is very much a Bauhaus inspired watch:

Syrte · Aug 1, 2018

rcs914
this is very much a Bauhaus inspired watch:

Er.... I beg to differ. First of all the way color is used on it is most definitely decorative. And those tiny holes in the hour hand? Are they supposed to serve a function?

Vitezi
Many, many reference books on PP as you probably know. One of them probably describes the Reference 96 as Bauhaus inspired, and the rest is history. Or at least is the reason why the claim shows up in so many blogs.

This source quotes subject matter expert "Estelle Fallet, curator of the Musée d’Horlogerie et de l’Émaillerie in Geneva, (who) singles out the Calatrava for having “applied the principles of Bauhaus to watch design.” "

Still only an opinion, but it's an expert opinion. 😉

Thank you very much for the informed reply and for those references. I had no idea about any Patek book - or anything Patek for that matter.

Peemacgee · Aug 1, 2018

rcs914
I find it interesting that "Bauhaus" when it refers to a watch is almost exclusively interchangeable with "minimalist". Considering that this is very much a Bauhaus inspired watch:

I’m afraid that watch displays all of the flagrant excess of post-modernism.
Where simple shapes and primary colours might abound but decoration was very much for decoration’s sake.

JimInOz · Aug 1, 2018

rcs914
I find it interesting that "Bauhaus" when it refers to a watch is almost exclusively interchangeable with "minimalist". Considering that this is very much a Bauhaus inspired watch:

Who designed it?

Fisher Price?

Tik-Tok of Oz · Aug 1, 2018

I tended to first think of brands like Glashütte or Nomos when it comes to Bauhaus style more than PP. off topic aside: The Bauhaus influence is pretty big in my town when it comes to architecture.

Peemacgee · Aug 1, 2018

Tik-Tok of Oz
The Bauhaus influence is pretty big in my town when it comes to architecture.

as they say - pictures or it didn't happen 😉

Tik-Tok of Oz · Aug 1, 2018

Peemacgee
as they say - pictures or it didn't happen 😉

Regrettably I don’t own any of these style as of now.

Like this above. Now that I think about it there are a lot of minimalist PP’s out there also.

Fialetti · Aug 1, 2018

The Bauhaus, as already pointed out, was not the originator of the 'form follows function' concept (Louis Sullivan) or the programmatic suppression of ornament (Adolf Loos). A number of Bauhaus practitioners (e.g Moholy-Nagy, Breuer) considered that part of what they were aiming for was the application of existing industrial design practices - utilitarian forms, modular design, standardisation of components etc - to decorative arts that had been dominated by craft manufacturing and highly-ornamental styles using classical or organic forms. So they were, openly and avowedly, influenced by non-artistic industrial design.

It's not just the influence of the Bauhaus, but the influence on the Bauhaus that needs to be accounted for. If watch manufacturers like Patek had more confidence in their design (as distinct from the technological) heritage, they might be talking about how Bauhaus designers applied their principles, and not just the other way around.

(And that's before we even get onto the Bauhaus obsession with efficiency, defined as using design to reduce the time taken to perform work and domestic chores. It's essentially a design ethos of people who really, really trusted their timepieces).

Fialetti · Aug 1, 2018

rcs914
I find it interesting that "Bauhaus" when it refers to a watch is almost exclusively interchangeable with "minimalist". Considering that this is very much a Bauhaus inspired watch:

Mostly, I think, because so much of it is filtered through the aesthetic of Dieter Rams, whose 'less is more' principle strongly emphasised that part of the Bauhaus heritage, at the same time as he extended it to a range of object, including clocks and watches, that the original Bauhaus generation were not concerned with.

Peemacgee · Aug 1, 2018

Tik-Tok of Oz
Regrettably I don’t own any of these style as of now.

I was hoping for pictures of Bauhaus architecture rather than watches.

LouS · Aug 1, 2018

Fialetti
Mostly, I think, because so much of it is filtered through the aesthetic of Dieter Rams, whose 'less is more' principle strongly emphasised that part of the Bauhaus heritage, at the same time as he extended it to a range of object, including clocks and watches, that the original Bauhaus generation were not concerned with.

Wristwatch as appliance...if he had set out to gut the warmth and personality out of wristwatches, he could not have done it better. 🙁

Tik-Tok of Oz · Aug 1, 2018

Peemacgee
I was hoping for pictures of Bauhaus architecture rather than watches.

Lol....I should not be doing this on the fly.
In Chicago there are many examples chiefly from Mies van der Rohe . 860-880 lake shore drive are one example. The Federal courthouse and plaza are others. Many buildings at Illinois Institute of Technology. The IBM building. The images can be googled.

Many people hate this style of steel and glass boxes.

Archer · Aug 1, 2018

JimInOz
Who designed it?

Fisher Price?

Might need to check the prescription in your glasses - it's written right on the dial....Alain Silberstein.

And he does/did claim that his designed were Bauhaus "inspired"

Deafboy · Aug 1, 2018

Archer
Might need to check the prescription in your glasses - it's written right on the dial....Alain Silberstein.

And he does/did claim that his designed were Bauhaus "inspired"

That watch looks to me as an an exaggerated Swiss International or Swiss Modernist (e.g. Helveltica Font, Mondaine dial, Swiss posters of 1950's, etc.) that gives it a playful demeanour.