A first generation Carrera question

dsio · Nov 15, 2014

I've just been reading through http://carrera.calibre11.com/1960s-heuer-carrera/ and stopped when I saw this image of a two-register Carrera variant:

I imagine whoever the owner of this example is has no interest in selling his and understandably so, but the clean non-tachymeter dial and two register layout looks absolutely stunning, what reference is this version with the 45 minute minute counter, and how long were they in production?

georgetownhoya · Nov 15, 2014

Hi Ash,

Great question. This particular watch is in the collection of TAG Heuer. It has the silver starburst dial, which was found on those a year or two after the earliest Carreras of 1963 and 1964. I suppose just looking at the dial it could date between late 1964 and 1966, but most likely I think it probably dates to 1965.

I wrote a dissection of the very earliest Carreras here and make reference to the fact I wish TAG had an early Carrera in the collection for their advertising of what the Carrera originally looked like, haha:
http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/understanding-the-earliest-heuer-carreras

The Carreras with 45 minute registers are powered by a Valjoux 92 inside and the retail price was $69.50 originally compared to $89.50 for those with the Valjoux 72. The Valjoux 92 was used until the later 1960s when they switched to the Valjoux 7730 with the 30 minute register. Offhand, I forget the year the transition occurred.

The nickname for these was the Carrera 45 and the one above has the reference 3647 S. The S stands for a silver dial.

You can see some photos of manual wind 1960s Carreras, including the Carrera 45, through this handy OnTheDash page:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/63.Carrera/a.Manual_(1960s)/

Best regards,
Eric Wind

Robertus · Nov 16, 2014

My favourite-ever Carrera (unfortunately I do not have the watch) is the first series "fat lug" Carrera 12 Dato, partly because of the nice harmony of watch and lugs, partly because of the screw-down case back. I'd prefer this even with Clebar, Zodiac or other dial than any other Carrera with Heuer dial... Just my two cents of course.

dsio · Nov 16, 2014

georgetownhoya
Hi Ash,

Great question. This particular watch is in the collection of TAG Heuer. It has the silver starburst dial, which was found on those a year or two after the earliest Carreras of 1963 and 1964. I suppose just looking at the dial it could date between late 1964 and 1966, but most likely I think it probably dates to 1965.

I wrote a dissection of the very earliest Carreras here and make reference to the fact I wish TAG had an early Carrera in the collection for their advertising of what the Carrera originally looked like, haha:
http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/understanding-the-earliest-heuer-carreras

The Carreras with 45 minute registers are powered by a Valjoux 92 inside and the retail price was $69.50 originally compared to $89.50 for those with the Valjoux 72. The Valjoux 92 was used until the later 1960s when they switched to the Valjoux 7730 with the 30 minute register. Offhand, I forget the year the transition occurred.

The nickname for these was the Carrera 45 and the one above has the reference 3647 S. The S stands for a silver dial.

You can see some photos of manual wind 1960s Carreras, including the Carrera 45, through this handy OnTheDash page:
http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/63.Carrera/a.Manual_(1960s)/

Best regards,
Eric Wind

Thanks for that Eric, I'm actually not very familiar with the early hand-wound Vajloux calibres as I've only had Cal 320/321s and EPs in the past but is the 92 just a two register version of the 72 or are there other differences that led Heuer to price it $20 below the V.72 version?

abcoro · Nov 16, 2014

These early Carrera's are so classic timepeices, still under rated IMHO. The plain silver dials are so simple and elegant, pure class indeed. I do like both the V72 and the V92 variants. Usually the plain silver dials are much more affordable in comparison with the more desired panda and inverse panda variants. Attached yet another variant of our beloved Carrera, the so called "Dato 45" ref.3147s. Love the assymetry in the dial layout.

Calibre11 · Nov 16, 2014

Yes, Mark and Jeff did a great job with the Carrera reference guide at OTD, which is certainly worth checking out. I agree with Abel that it's the panda/ reverse panda models that have really pushed up prices- the plain dials are better value.

Abel's photo is a better representation of how these look in real-life too- the silver is not quite as vivid as the top photo.

I do like these "basic" dials- no tachy scale, no decimetre scale....very pure.

dc

dsio · Nov 16, 2014

D.C
Yes, Mark and Jeff did a great job with the Carrera reference guide at OTD, which is certainly worth checking out. I agree with Abel that it's the panda/ reverse panda models that have really pushed up prices- the plain dials are better value.

Abel's photo is a better representation of how these look in real-life too- the silver is not quite as vivid as the top photo.

I do like these "basic" dials- no tachy scale, no decimetre scale....very pure.

dc

Are there any non-tritium versions or being a tool watch did they all come with lume?

Brook · Nov 16, 2014

Here is another first generation version with V72, the Carrera 12, 2447P.

dsio · Nov 16, 2014

Brook
Here is another first generation version with V72, the Carrera 12, 2447P.

Very nice, I'm guessing given the condition of so many of these the water resistance is reasonable for a dry weather chronograph, are redials fairly rare among old Carreras?

Calibre11 · Nov 16, 2014

Amazing how close that is to the first re-edition from 1996 (below). Sure, the 2447D is even closer, but it has the same Silver and Blue combination

danomar · Nov 16, 2014

The 3647 is one of my favorites for the reasons Ash noticed.

dsio · Nov 16, 2014

danomar
The 3647 is one of my favorites for the reasons Ash noticed.

Gorgeous pair you have there, is that bracelet a factory original option for the Carrera?

danomar · Nov 16, 2014

dsio
is that bracelet a factory original option for the Carrera?

No. It is a fine blend of Technos endpieces with what I suspect is a Seiko BOR bracelet and a generic clasp.Not perfect but pretty close to good enough. Hm, is fellow bracelet nerd Paul Gavin on this forum yet..?

Calibre11 · Nov 16, 2014

Here's another Date Carrera

drunken monkey · Nov 28, 2014

just spotted this thread.

doesn't the S at the end of the model reference denote that it is Standard (i.e no scale)?
D is for Decimeter
T is Tachymeter
P is Pulsemeter

at least that was my understanding.

Calibre11 · Nov 28, 2014

There's not really a great hard and fast rule for the vintage Heuers- but for 1st gen Carreras you're mostly right

- S is sometimes used for standard- but it's (almost) always referring to a white/ silver dial (Carrera 2447S is silver; 2447N is black (= "Noir" in French). The "rules" get a bit messed up. This is a Carrera 7753 SND (great photo by Onthedash) - so here, S is for silver; N for the Black sub-dials and D for Decimeter

- In the same way, P in the Carrera line is for Pulsemeter scale, but in the later Autavia line P is for Plongeur (= French for "Diver")
- For the Monaco, there is the 1133G (G = grise/ grey)- photo from Heuerville

...but the 1533G has a dial of a totally different hue...you'd think this was silver...it's certainly not grey.

dc

dsio · Nov 28, 2014

D.C
There's not really a great hard and fast rule for the vintage Heuers- but for 1st gen Carrera's you're mostly right

- S is sometimes used for standard- but it's (almost) always referring to a white/ silver dial (Carrera 2447S is silver; 2447N is black (= "Noir" in French). The "rules" get a bit messed up. This is a Carrera 7753 SND (great photo by Onthedash) - so here, S is for silver; N for the Black sub-dials and D for Decimeter

- In the same way, P in the Carrera line is for Pulsometer scale, but in the later Autavia line P is for Plongeur (= French for "Diver)
- For the Monaco, there is the 1133G (G = grise/ grey)- photo from Heuerville

...but the 1533G has a dial of a totally different hue...you'd think this was silver...it's certainly not grey.

dc

Oh wow that 1133G is stunning

georgetownhoya · Nov 28, 2014

drunken monkey, you are right that they are usually called 2447D, 2447P, etc. on early ones. Part of that is also that there were rarely tracks on those with a black dial, but there is a rare 2447NT for instance:

http://chronocentric.com/forums/heuer/index.cgi?md=read;id=63235

So saying 2447SD or 2447SP is sort of unnecessary as we have not seen a 2447ND or 2447NP, for instance. Hope this helps.

drunken monkey · Nov 29, 2014

I should add that I have only ever mainly looked at Carrera watches but I never knew that it got "complicated" outside of the ones I look at.

dsio · Dec 16, 2014

How big is the premium carried by the 2447SN over the standard black / silver dial 2447? Reading through the Calibre11 Carrera First Generation page: http://carrera.calibre11.com/1960s-heuer-carrera/

It mentions it being rare, is it a model that was really produced in significantly lower numbers than the non-panda dials or is it a bit like the exotic dial Daytonas in that demand has forced prices up even though significant supply does exist rather than actual rarity?

I understand why there is such a premium, its a very beautiful watch