1972 Tissot T12 Chronograph - request for opinions and advice

FergieB
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Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum and I must say I'm staggered by the wealth and breadth of knowledge and help that you all share with each other. It's a remarkable resource for people and I'm hoping that some of you with an interest in vintage Tissot (1960s & 1970s in particular).

I've been interested for a while in vintage Tissot chronographs, in particular the T12, but also in the PR 516 two and three register. I've enjoyed looking at the PR 516 GL also and would like to pick one of those up in the future.

As a result of my research, I've identified the following T12 from Chrono24 and would like to canvass opinion on the model generally and this one in particular including an opinion on the price. I've been in contact with the dealer who said EUR1,200 was as low as he could go. I may well next as him for photos of it on the timegrapher.

Tissot T-12 Chronograph 40505 Oversize 42 mm Steel YEARS '70... for 1,350 € for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

I'm in Ireland so I would like to purchase from within the EU.

Many thanks for your time and I'd love to hear from any of you who would like to comment etc.
 
Vitezi
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Hello @FergieB and welcome to the forum!

The T12 that you have selected is one of the iconic models for Tissot, circa 1968. I believe the T12 chronographs were all powered by the Lemania 873, a well-known and well-regarded movement. Tissot had many different versions of the T12, but the models that came in that bulbous case were often referred to as "Super T12" models, as seen here in a 1968 catalog:

Tissot_Adverisement_1968-15.jpg


Prices for the chronograph hover around $1000 at auction. These are not rare watches - you can find one or two for sale at any time on auction sites like eBay - so if you choose to go with a dealer you will want a perfect specimen for the dealer premium.

Don't forget to include the cost of a service if you plan to wear the watch. Chronographs have more moving parts and will be more expensive to service than a time-only watch. Fortunately, any watchmaker familiar with vintage chronographs should be able to service the watch. Check with your local watchmakers for pricing.

https://www.fratellowatches.com/seiko-6138-yachtman-vs-tissot-t12-chronograph/
https://www.fratellowatches.com/tbt-tomass-top-8-vintage-tissot-watches/

As you continue your research, make sure to visit these threads:
https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-tissot.63179/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/vintage-tissot-resources.88078/
https://omegaforums.net/threads/do-you-like-tissot-many-pics.58233/

You may know that James Bond wore that PR 516 in Live and Let Die - naturally, that's the one to go for 😎:
https://www.fratellowatches.com/tbt-the-underrated-bond-tissot-pr-516-watch/
 
FergieB
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@Vitezi Thank you so much for all that information! I do like the looks of the chronograph but it was mainly the Lemania 873 that you mention that attracted me too. I'd seen the Fratello vs article which I found fascinating but I'll certainly give the other material a thorough read too.

A watchmaker not too far from me charges about EUR350 for servicing chronographs but I haven't spoken to him as yet.

It's funny you should mention that Roger Moore Tissot as I absolutely love it but can't locate one anywhere. If I could, that's what I'd be buying. I presume you have one, how do you find it?
 
Vitezi
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FergieB FergieB
...how do you find it?
Vintage watch collecting is all about the chase! 😀 The PR516 was a popular model for Tissot, and it came in many different styles and configurations. If you're hunting for Bond's watch, you'll want to pay close attention to the details that define the specific version that he wore. The largest source of vintage watches is eBay - you can set up automated searches on that site for the PR516. Or you can do what the rest of us do, which is to relentlessly scan the interwebs for watches 24 hours a day. 🤨 Nobody said it was going to be easy!
 
JwRosenthal
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I’ve seen the Moore 516 pop up on eBay a couple times in the last year- so they do pop up. The t12 marshmallow cases are tough to find with original finishes (should not look like chrome ball) and without moisture damage to the dial/Lume. Be prepared to pay a premium for clean examples and jump when you find one.
 
FergieB
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Thanks lads. Indeed no matter what you want it takes time to find one and then to find the right one!

The T12 I’ve linked to seems to be in good knick so is intriguing. I’m also torn between it, the Moore PR 516 and an Omega constellation and only really want to buy one of them, at least for now.
 
FergieB
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As already indicated, I really like 1970's watches and I loved a Seastar Navigator or just Seastar on the dial as some of them are and was going to buy one recently on ebay. However, I subsequently changed my mind due to being swayed towards Lamania movements rather than the Valjoux 7734 in the Seastar/Seastar Navigators.

Has anyone a view on the quality of the Valjoux 7734 versus say the Lemania of the T12 Chronometer? I appreciate the difference in prestige and rarity between the two but is there anymore to it than that?
 
JwRosenthal
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Can’t speak to the Lemania but the 7733/7734 is a bulletproof movement with abundant parts out there.

To put it in perspective, I bought a fabulous yachting style chrono with a toasted 7733. I found a fugly Waltham gold plated donor for $200 in perfect working condition- can’t beat that
 
amcclell
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The 7734 does the job but it was an economy movement that was found in lots of entry level chronograph watches. The Lemania manual wind movement is finished better and is more expensive.
 
FergieB
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Can’t speak to the Lemania but the 7733/7734 is a bulletproof movement with abundant parts out there.

To put it in perspective, I bought a fabulous yachting style chrono with a toasted 7733. I found a fugly Waltham gold plated donor for $200 in perfect working condition- can’t beat that
Hard to argue indeed. I originally was most interested in a Seastar preferably on a bracelet and noticed that in good condition were close to Tissot's with a Lemania movement and thought the V773/4 might be bad value in comparison.
 
FergieB
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amcclell amcclell
The 7734 does the job but it was an economy movement that was found in lots of entry level chronograph watches. The Lemania manual wind movement is finished better and is more expensive.
Yeah it's the economy nature of the movement that is putting me off vs a Lemania movement even if I like the V7734 watch better. I'm still trying to make up my mind whether it's the looks of the watch or the movement that should matter more.
 
JwRosenthal
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I think saying the 7733/7734 is “economy” is a little unfair. It was a fine movement used by both mid-tier and better brands. Yes the Lemania is rarer and was a “better” movement, but it wouldn’t make be buy one watch over the other if I liked them equally
 
FergieB
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
I think saying the 7733/7734 is “economy” is a little unfair. It was a fine movement used by both mid-tier and better brands. Yes the Lemania is rarer and was a “better” movement, but it wouldn’t make be buy one watch over the other if I liked them equally
Well I'm glad to hear your perspective on it as a very knowledgeable and obviously practical minded person and you've really got to the nub of the argument I've been having with myself.

I like the T12 chronograph for its looks and the GF bracelet plus the 873 movement which I'd find it satisfying knowing it is the Omega 861 and would be guaranteed quality. I've seen a NOS Seastar Navigator which I find stunning for the same money as the T12. Everytime I look at the photos of the NOS Seastar Navigator I love it but say to myself "yes it is fabulous but you could get a T12 with 873 movement and a GF bracelet instead". The NOS Seastar Navigator is on a good looking leather strap. I'm still wrestling with this but I'm find all your opinions fascinating and ultimately very useful.
 
JwRosenthal
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Money being equal, the T12 is probably the better buy as long as it hasn’t been over-polished or has seen moisture. These watches are really apples to oranges, you should buy both 😎
 
FergieB
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Money being equal, the T12 is probably the better buy as long as it hasn’t been over-polished or has seen moisture. These watches are really apples to oranges, you should buy both 😎
Ha yeah and the Omega constellation as well to complete the trio!

To give some specific context to my deliberations these are Seastars I've been looking at:
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Tissot-Seas...076186?hash=item3db73a9a5a:g:wp8AAOSwWixgLOqd
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/TISSOT-SEAS...526569?hash=item2b001d7e29:g:UPIAAOSwXwBf7LYS
https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Raritat-Tis...512143?hash=item1ab49fa94f:g:Ay0AAOSw6odft-xU

The T12 I've been eyeing is at the top of the thread. I'm only focusing on EU sellers as I'm in it myself.
 
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JwRosenthal
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None of those Seastar’s I find appealing. The bezel on the first one, I have never seen and I suspect is from a different watch.

the T12 is the most appealing so far, I would see if he can come down in the price as it will undoubtedly need a service- which won’t be cheap.
 
FergieB
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Yeah it's a peculiar bezel alright and the panda one may have seen moisture or something although still handsome. The NOS one just too expensive?

When I last contacted the T12 seller he said EUR1,200 including delivery was as good as he could do so that's where we left it. I was contemplating asking him for photos of it on a timegrapher and maybe to service it if it hasn't been for that EUR1,200 but that seems unlikely. Would be a very expensive package to pay that and another EUR350 on top for a service.
 
FergieB
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JwRosenthal JwRosenthal
Yup- agreed to all above. Be patient, they pop up.
Thanks for your insight, good advice. I might try the T12 dealer again with the notion of servicing the watch etc. and see how it flies. Not well I expect! Patience would seem to be the watchword with vintage watches but it's tough when you're excited about one you see.
 
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